5-string bass intonation
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For some reason, a lot of B strings that I’ve come across are really hard > to > intonate properly. I find that the taperwound Bs are worse than most, but > I’ve > had a rough time intonating most of the Bs on my fivers, and I’ve had a > lot of > practice. Just the nature of the beasts, I guess. > A big problem, that results in a string not playing true all the way up the > neck is cause by the core twisting on installation. I recently had a 70s > Fender P/J with a brand new set of Markley strings installed by the owner, > in the shop for some work. The thing had ghost notes all over the place and > was basically unusable. There were fret leveling and neck set issues with > this particular instrument, to be sure but restringing it properly solved > 95% of its problems. This is how I do it: > With the instrument flat on its back, hook the string in the bridge and > wrap the other end 2 complete turns around the gear post. Cut the string 1" > or so from the last turn. Pull this assembly off of the gear post > Fold the cut end through the turns so it is pointing straight down and re > install on the gear post with the cut end going into the center hole in the > post. MAKE SURE that ball end is relaxed and that the string is limp before > tuning it up! > That’s it. Wrapping a string around a post will cause some twisting. This > method minimizes its effect on intonation. > jepp
Alternately,, set the string in the bridge, run it through the nut & the slot in the tuning peg, cut the string 3 1/4" beyond (longer) the peg. Insert the string end in the tuning peg hole, lay it flat in the tuning peg slot, apply some tension with one hand & start winding layers top to bottom with the peg machine. You should get about 3 wraps on the peg for the A & D a bit more for the G & a bit less for the E. LOL, S&y
Response:
Don’t cut the nut down. If you have buzz at the 12th fret and higer, you need to adjust the truss rod. My own specs are: .014"-.016" relief as measured with a straight edge and feeler guages at the 7th fret. The straight edge should go the entire length of the fretboard. String heights are 5/64" on the E and B strings, gradually lowering to 4/64" on the G string (A an D string are somewhere between that). This is measured at the 12th fret, while holding the string down at the first fret, and measured from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret. With this setup, there is no guess work, and I can get all my basses playing consistently.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks! everyone for the good info. on B string intonation. > The other thing:: "Action Envy" > The Carvin came set up nice (as advertised) but I keep hearing bassists > mentioning ’super low’ action … I lowered the action a little (as > Carvin endorsed) at the bridge, but when I go even lower I get subtle > fret buzz (can’t hear it thru the amp) at about the 12th fret and > higher that I suspect kills sustain and maybe causes the evil B string > harmonics mentioned in the thread. > BUT it looks like the nut could be lowered without harm….. So > (Carvin being who they are) I wonder what I am missing. Any reason I > should not cut it down some? > Thanks > RW (twice-a-week-wonder) > I just bought a new Carvin (factory assembled) 5-string bolt "Low B" > bass. I lowered the action slightly as I have a light touch and > re-intonated carefully at the bridge. When the low B string is in > tune at the nut (and at fret 12), it is noticeably out of tune up > around the fifth and seventh fret. Am I correct to assume that this > is characteristic and that the fifth string is mainly useful for only > the low B,C,D notes? If you get what I mean. Or is something else amiss? > Ross
Response:
Thank you all for so patiently exploring this problem. In application, your observations are helpful (haven’t had a chance to fiddle with method of string winding), and I’ve learned a lot. … but so that others are not mislead, the MAIN problem was that I was simply pressing too hard on the strings when fretting. duh. and while this is important to consider while playing, it was exaggerated, because I fretted especially hard when….. checking intonation. I feel pretty dumb, but then, if it were not for the newsgroup and my willingness to ask dumb questions…. who knows long I would have been in the dark about it. But I ramble (if not blather). Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just bought a new Carvin (factory assembled) 5-string bolt "Low B" > bass. I lowered the action slightly as I have a light touch and > re-intonated carefully at the bridge. When the low B string is in > tune at the nut (and at fret 12), it is noticeably out of tune up > around the fifth and seventh fret. Am I correct to assume that this > is characteristic and that the fifth string is mainly useful for only > the low B,C,D notes? If you get what I mean. Or is something else amiss? > Ross
Response:
Thanks! everyone for the good info. on B string intonation. The other thing:: "Action Envy" The Carvin came set up nice (as advertised) but I keep hearing bassists mentioning ’super low’ action … I lowered the action a little (as Carvin endorsed) at the bridge, but when I go even lower I get subtle fret buzz (can’t hear it thru the amp) at about the 12th fret and higher that I suspect kills sustain and maybe causes the evil B string harmonics mentioned in the thread. BUT it looks like the nut could be lowered without harm….. So (Carvin being who they are) I wonder what I am missing. Any reason I should not cut it down some? Thanks RW (twice-a-week-wonder) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just bought a new Carvin (factory assembled) 5-string bolt "Low B" > bass. I lowered the action slightly as I have a light touch and > re-intonated carefully at the bridge. When the low B string is in > tune at the nut (and at fret 12), it is noticeably out of tune up > around the fifth and seventh fret. Am I correct to assume that this > is characteristic and that the fifth string is mainly useful for only > the low B,C,D notes? If you get what I mean. Or is something else amiss? > Ross
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For some reason, a lot of B strings that I’ve come across are really hard > to > intonate properly. I find that the taperwound Bs are worse than most, but > I’ve > had a rough time intonating most of the Bs on my fivers, and I’ve had a > lot of > practice. Just the nature of the beasts, I guess. > A big problem, that results in a string not playing true all the way up the > neck is cause by the core twisting on installation. I recently had a 70s > Fender P/J with a brand new set of Markley strings installed by the owner, > in the shop for some work. The thing had ghost notes all over the place and > was basically unusable. There were fret leveling and neck set issues with > this particular instrument, to be sure but restringing it properly solved > 95% of its problems. This is how I do it: > With the instrument flat on its back, hook the string in the bridge and > wrap the other end 2 complete turns around the gear post. Cut the string 1" > or so from the last turn. Pull this assembly off of the gear post > Fold the cut end through the turns so it is pointing straight down and re > install on the gear post with the cut end going into the center hole in the > post. MAKE SURE that ball end is relaxed and that the string is limp before > tuning it up! > That’s it. Wrapping a string around a post will cause some twisting. This > method minimizes its effect on intonation. > jepp
It took me several years to figure out the technique that you are describing. I went through quite a few "bad" basses before I realized that it was a combination of my stringing technique and using some strings that were not really meant for my style of bass guitar. Of course, I figured it out after I had consulted all of the "experts" in the area. To their credit, Fender helped put me on the correct path. This was in the late sixties, early seventies. Another "trick" for short scale bass users; if your bass’ E string suddenly has lots of harmonics that crowd out the fundamental note, raise the string’s height until the fundamental tone is dominant once again. I haven’t owned a short scale bass yet that won’t sound really funky on the E string when it is lowered to a comfortable level, even with the bridge piece adjusted to compensate. For some reason, short scale basses need their strings to be much higher than a longer scale bass. It kind of detracts from their desirability as far as I am concerned. Ed Cregger
Response:
> > I just bought a new Carvin (factory assembled) 5-string bolt "Low B" > bass. I lowered the action slightly as I have a light touch and > re-intonated carefully at the bridge. When the low B string is in tune > at the nut (and at fret 12), it is noticeably out of tune up around the > fifth and seventh fret. Am I correct to assume that this is > characteristic and that the fifth string is mainly useful for only the > low B,C,D notes? If you get what I mean. Or is something else amiss?
I typically intonate low B strings by justifying the open B with the fretted 10th fret A note using a good quality chromatic tuner (I use a Sabine ST 1500 out in the world & a Petersen strobe in the shop). In my experience, harmonics are a very poor standard to measure against because of the lack of string excursion. I hope your Carvin is a 35" scale… jim eppard
Response:
For some reason, a lot of B strings that I’ve come across are really hard to intonate properly. I find that the taperwound Bs are worse than most, but I’ve had a rough time intonating most of the Bs on my fivers, and I’ve had a lot of practice. Just the nature of the beasts, I guess. _ ‘ ): Ted Partin / http://members.aol.com/dblbassted
Response:
> I just bought a new Carvin (factory assembled) 5-string bolt "Low B" > bass. I lowered the action slightly as I have a light touch and > re-intonated carefully at the bridge. When the low B string is in tune > at the nut (and at fret 12), it is noticeably out of tune up around the > fifth and seventh fret. Am I correct to assume that this is > characteristic and that the fifth string is mainly useful for only the > low B,C,D notes? If you get what I mean. Or is something else amiss?
Try a brand-new, fresh set of strings on it, and if your current B string is tapered, try a non-tapered set.
Response:
> For some reason, a lot of B strings that I’ve come across are really hard to > intonate properly. I find that the taperwound Bs are worse than most, but I’ve > had a rough time intonating most of the Bs on my fivers, and I’ve had a lot of > practice. Just the nature of the beasts, I guess.
A big problem, that results in a string not playing true all the way up the neck is cause by the core twisting on installation. I recently had a 70s Fender P/J with a brand new set of Markley strings installed by the owner, in the shop for some work. The thing had ghost notes all over the place and was basically unusable. There were fret leveling and neck set issues with this particular instrument, to be sure but restringing it properly solved 95% of its problems. This is how I do it: With the instrument flat on its back, hook the string in the bridge and wrap the other end 2 complete turns around the gear post. Cut the string 1" or so from the last turn. Pull this assembly off of the gear post Fold the cut end through the turns so it is pointing straight down and re install on the gear post with the cut end going into the center hole in the post. MAKE SURE that ball end is relaxed and that the string is limp before tuning it up! That’s it. Wrapping a string around a post will cause some twisting. This method minimizes its effect on intonation. jepp
Response:
> I just bought a new Carvin (factory assembled) 5-string bolt "Low B" > bass. I lowered the action slightly as I have a light touch and > re-intonated carefully at the bridge. When the low B string is in tune > at the nut (and at fret 12), it is noticeably out of tune up around the > fifth and seventh fret. Am I correct to assume that this is > characteristic and that the fifth string is mainly useful for only the > low B,C,D notes? If you get what I mean. Or is something else amiss?
AFAIK, yes. How often do you play the B string at, or above the 12th fret? If you’re like me, never. Many 5 stringer’s intonate the low B around the 7th or 5th fret harmonic, as this is where we use that string the most. Greg
Response:
I just bought a new Carvin (factory assembled) 5-string bolt "Low B" bass. I lowered the action slightly as I have a light touch and re-intonated carefully at the bridge. When the low B string is in tune at the nut (and at fret 12), it is noticeably out of tune up around the fifth and seventh fret. Am I correct to assume that this is characteristic and that the fifth string is mainly useful for only the low B,C,D notes? If you get what I mean. Or is something else amiss? Ross
Response:
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