More cab thinking!
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Every time I hear some teenagers car go past fitted with one of those > irritating ‘bass bins’ in the boot that must be shaking the spot welds > out > of the chassis, or, turn up the volume on my TV’s 5.1 surround sound > system > with that nice compact 350w box behind rattling all the windows in the > house > I get to thinking that maybe a unit (or 2) like either of these might > just > cut it at some of the smaller pub venues we play at, yet be both light > and > easily transportable. > If you only ever play one note, well, then you might be on to something. > When those cars go by, listen carefully. The one note you hear is always > the one that’s precisely tuned to cause all the body parts to rattle > sympathetically. Think about it — you can’t hear a bass line from those > cars, all you hear is a one-note boom. Same idea with the little > home-audio "subwoofers" — first, they’re really not "sub" woofers at all, > they generally don’t go any lower in range than good full-range speakers, > all many of them do is overemphasize the range between say, 40 and 100 Hz. > A true "sub" woofer would add low-frequency extension. Second, they > certainly don’t provide a full bass range, instead, they just provide a > physically-palpable low vibration. > As I said, if that’s all you want your bass to sound like, then all you’d > have to do is build a very-limited-bandwidth tuned enclosure. Most bass > players want to be able to distinguish the notes they are playing. You > know, this would be a good starting point for a rant about home audio, how > the emphasis has gone from accurate reproduction of real instruments to > totally-fabricated production of bizarre sound effects. Nobody cares about > their system being able to sound exactly like a grand piano in the room > with them, all they want is to shake the window panes. I suspect that this > is a reflection of the state of current popular music, which consists > largely of bizarre sound effects.
If I had a mom and pop store, I would be a fool to attempt to compete with Wal-Marts. True? With a home studio set up to generate some revenue, I would be a fool to attempt to compete with major record labels and their high tech equipped professional studios. True? My niche, if I can ever locate it, will be to provide alternative forms of music to a hopefully buying public. I’ll leave the Steinway and Stradivarius sound to the major high tech studios. I can’t compete with them at their own game. On the other hand, music that is different and non standardized is quite easy to produce at a professional level in a home studio with budget priced equipment. There is nothing else to compare it to. TAS
Response:
> Every time I hear some teenagers car go past fitted with one of those > irritating ‘bass bins’ in the boot that must be shaking the spot welds out > of the chassis, or, turn up the volume on my TV’s 5.1 surround sound system > with that nice compact 350w box behind rattling all the windows in the house > I get to thinking that maybe a unit (or 2) like either of these might just > cut it at some of the smaller pub venues we play at, yet be both light and > easily transportable.
If you only ever play one note, well, then you might be on to something. When those cars go by, listen carefully. The one note you hear is always the one that’s precisely tuned to cause all the body parts to rattle sympathetically. Think about it — you can’t hear a bass line from those cars, all you hear is a one-note boom. Same idea with the little home-audio "subwoofers" — first, they’re really not "sub" woofers at all, they generally don’t go any lower in range than good full-range speakers, all many of them do is overemphasize the range between say, 40 and 100 Hz. A true "sub" woofer would add low-frequency extension. Second, they certainly don’t provide a full bass range, instead, they just provide a physically-palpable low vibration. As I said, if that’s all you want your bass to sound like, then all you’d have to do is build a very-limited-bandwidth tuned enclosure. Most bass players want to be able to distinguish the notes they are playing. You know, this would be a good starting point for a rant about home audio, how the emphasis has gone from accurate reproduction of real instruments to totally-fabricated production of bizarre sound effects. Nobody cares about their system being able to sound exactly like a grand piano in the room with them, all they want is to shake the window panes. I suspect that this is a reflection of the state of current popular music, which consists largely of bizarre sound effects.
Response:
The technology is out there, but most cabs are typical ported bass-reflex units. Warwick had a subwoofer cab that was actually a variety of bandpass box – this is actually a technology application where computers have allowed this style of cab to be designed more easily. Most of the auto thump you hear is coming from a 4th-order bandpass design cabinet. It gets an automatic 12dB/octave boost from being in the car’s cabin – which it will lose in a club application. Usually they are poorly tuned, producing the common "one-note" bass we hear in traffic. Placing a bass cabinet (subwoofer) in a room’s corner, will get you an additional 6dB of boost, and placing two woofers horizontally in-line on the floor nets +3dB, or vertically firing into the corner also +3dB. Stacking vertically onstage usually does not couple efficiently for the extra boost. Euphonic Audio is using advanced technology for his cabinets, building compact transmission-line enclosures that use special Kevlar speaker cones. Some of Bergantino, Schroeder and Raezer’s Edge designs are pretty creative, also. The huge Ampeg 410-HLF cabinets are also very well designed. 6th-order bandpass cabinets using carefully chosen woofers in a push-pull (isobaric) design would also work, but you have to tune them carefully, or your woofers will commit suicide as they beat each other to death on the lowest notes. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m still struggling to find the right, compact cab/cabs that are easily > transportable and give the right ’sound’ and got to thinking (always > dangerous, I know) that we’re all following a very conventional route in > having 1×15, 2×10, 4×10, 8×10 cabinets with all their inherent weight, > size, > volume issue. Has technology moved on and missed us? > Every time I hear some teenagers car go past fitted with one of those > irritating ‘bass bins’ in the boot that must be shaking the spot welds > out > of the chassis, or, turn up the volume on my TV’s 5.1 surround sound > system > with that nice compact 350w box behind rattling all the windows in the > house > I get to thinking that maybe a unit (or 2) like either of these might > just > cut it at some of the smaller pub venues we play at, yet be both light > and > easily transportable. Plus, you can stick it anywhere on ‘the stage’ > to be > convenient and unobtrusive. > From what I’ve heard of them, they sound rubbish anyway!. > But more importantly, they are designed for a specific purpose, that of > working in a very confined ‘room’ – the car – and their ratings are > ridiculously optimistic!. > Using the drivers for a bass guitar, and trying to play a small gig with > them, is likely to blow them to pieces. Generally PA and instrument gear > have honest ratings (proper RMS. ones – regardless of what some people > thing of RMS. ratings!) – in-car and theatre systems mostly have VERY > dishonest ratings. I’ve seen computer 5.1 speakers advertised as 100W – > (with 5W RMS. in the small print) – imagine your 100W bass amp trying to > feed that at a gig!. > Try taking an in-car system, or your home 5.1 system, and filling a club > with acceptable level music – just from a CD, don’t try putting a bass > through it!. > For PA use you need to shift large quantities of air (to get the volume > levels), the in-car/theatre gear sacrifices volume for low frequency > response – so you get enhanced low frequencies, but at a much reduced > volume level. > There’s generally a sound reason for the way things are done, it’s not > just a conspiracy to make you carry large heavy boxes 
An excellent post, Nigel. TAS
Response:
>I’m still struggling to find the right, compact cab/cabs that are easily >transportable and give the right ’sound’ and got to thinking (always >dangerous, I know) that we’re all following a very conventional route in >having 1×15, 2×10, 4×10, 8×10 cabinets with all their inherent weight, size, >volume issue. Has technology moved on and missed us? >Every time I hear some teenagers car go past fitted with one of those >irritating ‘bass bins’ in the boot that must be shaking the spot welds out >of the chassis, or, turn up the volume on my TV’s 5.1 surround sound system >with that nice compact 350w box behind rattling all the windows in the house >I get to thinking that maybe a unit (or 2) like either of these might just >cut it at some of the smaller pub venues we play at, yet be both light and >easily transportable. Plus, you can stick it anywhere on ‘the stage’ to be >convenient and unobtrusive.
From what I’ve heard of them, they sound rubbish anyway!. But more importantly, they are designed for a specific purpose, that of working in a very confined ‘room’ – the car – and their ratings are ridiculously optimistic!. Using the drivers for a bass guitar, and trying to play a small gig with them, is likely to blow them to pieces. Generally PA and instrument gear have honest ratings (proper RMS. ones – regardless of what some people thing of RMS. ratings!) – in-car and theatre systems mostly have VERY dishonest ratings. I’ve seen computer 5.1 speakers advertised as 100W – (with 5W RMS. in the small print) – imagine your 100W bass amp trying to feed that at a gig!. Try taking an in-car system, or your home 5.1 system, and filling a club with acceptable level music – just from a CD, don’t try putting a bass through it!. For PA use you need to shift large quantities of air (to get the volume levels), the in-car/theatre gear sacrifices volume for low frequency response – so you get enhanced low frequencies, but at a much reduced volume level. There’s generally a sound reason for the way things are done, it’s not just a conspiracy to make you carry large heavy boxes — Nigel Goodwin C.Farmer Ltd. Matlock
Response:
The trouble is that both those technologies (TV 5.1 Surround, and the car rattling boxes) are designed to be used in relatively confined closed spaces and don’t have to project in a large room. Also the source material itself is usually very heavily compressed. I have a half-assed theory on the car "boom box" phenomenon that the body of the vehicle itself is acting as part of the speaker area due to the mounting of the drivers. My experience with car audio speakers (not super-extensive) is that the ones I have heard "au naturel" (i.e. not mounted in a car) have a fairly limited dynamic range and when pushed compress like crazy (which doesn’t really matter in car audio ‘coz, again, the source material is usually squashed flat by being over-compressed in the mastering stage to make the CD’s sound "louder"). Just my opinion. Thump
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m still struggling to find the right, compact cab/cabs that are easily > transportable and give the right ’sound’ and got to thinking (always > dangerous, I know) that we’re all following a very conventional route in > having 1×15, 2×10, 4×10, 8×10 cabinets with all their inherent weight, size, > volume issue. Has technology moved on and missed us? > Every time I hear some teenagers car go past fitted with one of those > irritating ‘bass bins’ in the boot that must be shaking the spot welds out > of the chassis, or, turn up the volume on my TV’s 5.1 surround sound system > with that nice compact 350w box behind rattling all the windows in the house > I get to thinking that maybe a unit (or 2) like either of these might just > cut it at some of the smaller pub venues we play at, yet be both light and > easily transportable. Plus, you can stick it anywhere on ‘the stage’ to be > convenient and unobtrusive. > I thinking that maybe projection is the answer as both the car and TV > systems are, in effect, near-field set-ups, but has anyone ever > tried/considered something like this? I know Bose have always had a thing > about their ‘Waveport’ system and it’s been poo-poohed, but surely all these > compact boxes are using that type of technology? Could us bass players learn > from this and save our ageing backs?:-) > Neil.
Response:
"Neil" we’re all following a very conventional route in > having 1×15, 2×10, 4×10, 8×10 cabinets
http://www.philjonesbass.com/ /per
Response:
Ahhh. Heard of them. Thanks for the link. Anyone know of a UK dealer? Neil.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Neil" > we’re all following a very conventional route in > having 1×15, 2×10, 4×10, 8×10 cabinets > http://www.philjonesbass.com/ > /per
Response:
> compact boxes are using that type of technology? Could us bass players > learn > from this and save our ageing backs?:-) > Neil.
Have you looked at Bagend, they make very light cabs while still very efficient. Not to expensive either, I bought mine on Ebay, they had been rented one time… to Mr. John Patitucci. If they are good enough for him.- Also look at the neodynium speakers that are coming out now.. they are very light… Soren
Response:
I’m still struggling to find the right, compact cab/cabs that are easily transportable and give the right ’sound’ and got to thinking (always dangerous, I know) that we’re all following a very conventional route in having 1×15, 2×10, 4×10, 8×10 cabinets with all their inherent weight, size, volume issue. Has technology moved on and missed us? Every time I hear some teenagers car go past fitted with one of those irritating ‘bass bins’ in the boot that must be shaking the spot welds out of the chassis, or, turn up the volume on my TV’s 5.1 surround sound system with that nice compact 350w box behind rattling all the windows in the house I get to thinking that maybe a unit (or 2) like either of these might just cut it at some of the smaller pub venues we play at, yet be both light and easily transportable. Plus, you can stick it anywhere on ‘the stage’ to be convenient and unobtrusive. I thinking that maybe projection is the answer as both the car and TV systems are, in effect, near-field set-ups, but has anyone ever tried/considered something like this? I know Bose have always had a thing about their ‘Waveport’ system and it’s been poo-poohed, but surely all these compact boxes are using that type of technology? Could us bass players learn from this and save our ageing backs?:-) Neil.
Response:
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