Tuning bass to different keys?
Question:
> Hi, Ive only been playing bass for a short time so sorry if this is a > stupid question. Ive been jamming with a band for a while now and I’ve > been using either standard tuning, or drop D tuning for all the songs > we’ve been covering. Our guitar player does a lot of different tunings > for the songs (standard, 1/2 step down, drop D with 1/2 step down, > etc.). He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct? > Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, > everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. > He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same > notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in > the future. Is he correct? Any thoughts on this? I’m not saying hes > right or wrong…just wondering what the deal is. Thanks.
Only if he wants you to (or you both agree it sounds better playing the lower notes) play a low D or B (for example). (yea) (wait) ((Never mind)) — O< "Go Red Wings!" /() ^^ Slidell, LA
Response:
I teach bass as my sort-of "day job". With today’s music I tune the living shit of a 4-string bass. In the average day, I may go from a drop B Tool song, to standard tuning, to Drop Eb, to drop Db, to up 1/4 step from standard to compensate for the kid’s crappy MP3 conversion. Thank God I don’t use one of my basses for this, or the neck would look like a pretzel. I just use whatever cheap piece of crap is on the wall that day, then hang it up and walk away when I’m done. — Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm "Speaking the Truth in times of Universal deceit is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yeah, I couldn’t imagine having to retune my bass…the way I think of > it, as long as the band I am in doesn’t tune down past B, I can > transcribe it in my head. Sometimes I suppose if a riff uses a lot of > open strings, but would rather just learn to play the rif without > retuning. I play plenty of Tool and Perfect Circle (DTuned, and C#- > DTuned respectively) and I have never had to turn my bass around the > song, since I have a string that goes down to B. > -Thom >I agree with all people here talkin about this. I play 5 string and never >will detune it. Never had to either. >it isn’t necessary when a 5 string have all notes on a guitar, an more >downwise…(lower notes). Higher notes are not so much necessary since I >dont do solos by now, but i’m plannig to do in the future, thats because I >want to get a 6 string… >but never changing the tuning
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct? > No. There’s no reason for you to use "altered tunings" on a 4- or 5-string > bass. > The fact is that most of your playing will be "single notes." Altered > tunings are sometimes used with guitar to allow ease of "voicings" in > playing chords. You don’t have to worry about that. > I began playing bass at 15 years of age. One year later, at 16, I began > playing acoustic guitar as well, and I took classical guitar lessons (and > I’m now 46). I have used "alternate tunings" for years in my guitar playing. > I have NEVER even so much as used "drop D" on the bass. What’s the point? > You have no problem getting the notes you wish in your bass lines. > If you have an "odd" piece of music that requires you to play chords, well, > an altered tuning of the bass might be in order, but with a 4-string bass in > particular there’s only so much you can do. Root-third-fifth, maybe > root-third-flatted seventh or -major seventh, that’s about all you’d need > for a chord and that can easily be accomplished without changing a single > string. > Your guitarist probably knows nothing about playing bass, and you can safely > ignore him. > Have fun, and don’t sweat the small stuff.
I agree. I have a guitarist (my twin brother, in fact!) ask me if I can play the song if he detunes. This always makes me laugh because I make a habit of being able to play a song in any key. The answer is, "sure, I can play that song in any key," but without having to change strings; especially on my 5 string. Kind Regards, Nathaniel — flikWORLD Design reply to: nat at flikworld(dot)com
Response:
Yeah, I couldn’t imagine having to retune my bass…the way I think of it, as long as the band I am in doesn’t tune down past B, I can transcribe it in my head. Sometimes I suppose if a riff uses a lot of open strings, but would rather just learn to play the rif without retuning. I play plenty of Tool and Perfect Circle (DTuned, and C#- DTuned respectively) and I have never had to turn my bass around the song, since I have a string that goes down to B. -Thom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I agree with all people here talkin about this. I play 5 string and never >will detune it. Never had to either. >it isn’t necessary when a 5 string have all notes on a guitar, an more >downwise…(lower notes). Higher notes are not so much necessary since I >dont do solos by now, but i’m plannig to do in the future, thats because I >want to get a 6 string… >but never changing the tuning
Response:
I agree with all people here talkin about this. I play 5 string and never will detune it. Never had to either. it isn’t necessary when a 5 string have all notes on a guitar, an more downwise…(lower notes). Higher notes are not so much necessary since I dont do solos by now, but i’m plannig to do in the future, thats because I want to get a 6 string… but never changing the tuning — Alexei alepuglisi1024 -> yahoo.com.ar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, Ive only been playing bass for a short time so sorry if this is a > stupid question. Ive been jamming with a band for a while now and I’ve > been using either standard tuning, or drop D tuning for all the songs > we’ve been covering. Our guitar player does a lot of different tunings > for the songs (standard, 1/2 step down, drop D with 1/2 step down, > etc.). He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct? > Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, > everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. > He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same > notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in > the future. Is he correct? Any thoughts on this? I’m not saying hes > right or wrong…just wondering what the deal is. Thanks.
Response:
One thing your guitarist needs to understand is that bass necks move a lot (become more concave or convex) or in other words, the relief changes quite a bit when you tune all the strings up and down, b/c of the torque/tension of bass strings over a longer, thinner neck as compared to a guitar. This changes your sound dramatically as you may experience lots of nasty fretbuzz, or it may effect the way you play, which will certainly change your sound. I would politely tell your guitarist to worry about guitar related instrument issues, while you worry about your own department.
Response:
> No, he’s not correct. It’s not an issue now or later. And go ahead, > say he’s wrong! But DO think about a 5 string if you are playing > in a lot of keys that require drop tuning on a 4 string.
I agree. I play multiple instruments – guitar, bass, and a little drums and keys, mostly guitar and bass – and if I can play a song or piece of music without having to change the tuning of my guitar, I won’t do it. I listen to a lot of this newer music out and laugh when the guitarist in the band is playing in drop D tuning when the song can easily be played in standard tuning (Evanescence quickly comes to mind). You definitely want a 5-string in your arsenal, even if you don’t always play it. Then what you do is transpose everything your guitarist plays in Eb down to B. Then you tell him he needs to tune up with you so the song sounds right. Of course, most guitars tuned down a fourth like that sound like crap, which is why I have a 7-string in my arsenal. Baritone shmaritone. Give me the extra range everytime. Play your instrument how you like to play it. That’s what makes your tone YOUR tone. Joe
Response:
> Hi, Ive only been playing bass for a short time so sorry if this is a > stupid question.
There are no stupid questions! Can’t learn if you don’t ask. And Welcome to the Wonderful World of Bass! Ive been jamming with a band for a while now and I’ve > been using either standard tuning, or drop D tuning for all the songs > we’ve been covering.
I take it you play a 4 string bass. On a 4 string, playing in a Key like Eb can be done more effectively if you use a hipshot or drop tuning. However, in my opinion the REAL answer is to go buy a "real" bass! [all "real" basses have 5 or more strings] 
Our guitar player does a lot of different tunings > for the songs (standard, 1/2 step down, drop D with 1/2 step down, > etc.). He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct?
It’s almost not correct. If you own an expensive bass it is incorrect. Where you play a note on the neck will make next to no difference in the sound you get. On a cheapo bass, a note on an open string (typical of drop tunings) will often sound much more vibrant and alive than a higher fretted note. But in a band jam the difference even on a cheap bass will hardly be noticeable. On a guitar where chords are being played, drop tunings can make a big difference because it can totally change your hand configuration. This simply doesn’t apply to a bass (as others here have noted). > Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, > everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. > He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same > notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in > the future. Is he correct? Any thoughts on this? I’m not saying hes > right or wrong…just wondering what the deal is. Thanks.
No, he’s not correct. It’s not an issue now or later. And go ahead, say he’s wrong! But DO think about a 5 string if you are playing in a lot of keys that require drop tuning on a 4 string. Benj — Due to SPAM innundation above address is turned off!
Response:
> He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct?
No. There’s no reason for you to use "altered tunings" on a 4- or 5-string bass. The fact is that most of your playing will be "single notes." Altered tunings are sometimes used with guitar to allow ease of "voicings" in playing chords. You don’t have to worry about that. I began playing bass at 15 years of age. One year later, at 16, I began playing acoustic guitar as well, and I took classical guitar lessons (and I’m now 46). I have used "alternate tunings" for years in my guitar playing. I have NEVER even so much as used "drop D" on the bass. What’s the point? You have no problem getting the notes you wish in your bass lines. If you have an "odd" piece of music that requires you to play chords, well, an altered tuning of the bass might be in order, but with a 4-string bass in particular there’s only so much you can do. Root-third-fifth, maybe root-third-flatted seventh or -major seventh, that’s about all you’d need for a chord and that can easily be accomplished without changing a single string. Your guitarist probably knows nothing about playing bass, and you can safely ignore him. Have fun, and don’t sweat the small stuff.
Response:
okay, i’m disagreeing with all of you so far. if i’m playing a 4string, which i do exclusively these days, and the song really needs for me to tune down, i’ll do it everytime. there have been times that i have not tuned down with my guitarplayer, but most of the time i do. there’s got to be *no* ego in it man, not an inch. we play songs together, we are not on opposing basketball teams or something. if a song sounds better with that lower octave, i’ll go there. if i think the song and my bass part sound better when i’m tuned standard, i’ll stick by it. now if your guitarplayer sucks ass and is using his tunings to make up for his lack of talent, creativity and inherrent coolness, then you should instruct him to F*** himself. rule number effing one: do what sounds best for the song. everything else is bullshit. e.v.e.r.y.t.i.m.e.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, Ive only been playing bass for a short time so sorry if this is a > stupid question. Ive been jamming with a band for a while now and I’ve > been using either standard tuning, or drop D tuning for all the songs > we’ve been covering. Our guitar player does a lot of different tunings > for the songs (standard, 1/2 step down, drop D with 1/2 step down, > etc.). He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct? > Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, > everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. > He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same > notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in > the future. Is he correct? Any thoughts on this? I’m not saying hes > right or wrong…just wondering what the deal is. Thanks.
Response:
ok. (several drinks tonight) i’m not talking about fretting. i’m talking about the sonic difference of the low D. if your different fretting screw him up, then he’s a (sea-word). g’night. c
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> okay, i’m disagreeing with all of you so far. > if i’m playing a 4string, which i do exclusively these days, and the song > really needs for me to tune down, i’ll do it everytime. > there have been times that i have not tuned down with my guitarplayer, but > most of the time i do. > there’s got to be *no* ego in it man, not an inch. > we play songs together, we are not on opposing basketball teams or > something. > if a song sounds better with that lower octave, i’ll go there. > if i think the song and my bass part sound better when i’m tuned standard, > i’ll stick by it. > now if your guitarplayer sucks ass and is using his tunings to make up for > his lack of talent, creativity and inherrent coolness, then you should > instruct him to F*** himself. > rule number effing one: do what sounds best for the song. > everything else is bullshit. > e.v.e.r.y.t.i.m.e. > Hi, Ive only been playing bass for a short time so sorry if this is a > stupid question. Ive been jamming with a band for a while now and I’ve > been using either standard tuning, or drop D tuning for all the songs > we’ve been covering. Our guitar player does a lot of different tunings > for the songs (standard, 1/2 step down, drop D with 1/2 step down, > etc.). He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct? > Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, > everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. > He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same > notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in > the future. Is he correct? Any thoughts on this? I’m not saying hes > right or wrong…just wondering what the deal is. Thanks.
Response:
> He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct?
Did he say that the songs ‘will not’ sound right or ‘do not’ sound right? > Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, > everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. > He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same > notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in > the future. Is he correct?
Not really. Pedantically there are differences in the pitch between strings and positions, due to all manner of things from intonation, to string dynamics (guage, material, winding) and fret placement – not to mention more esoteric things like temperament. The guitar, like every fixed note instrument, is a compromise. Some notes on the fingerboard aren’t *quite* where they should be. This is really quite subtle and isn’t noticeable in most keys or by many people. If your guitarist has the ears to notice these things he’s already running into them himself almost every time he plays a chord. Now, if you are exactly doubling the guitarists part on the same part of the neck you could make sure you both have the same intonation issues by tuning the same, but I doubt very much that you are doing that. If you *are* doing that buy an 8 string bass and sack the guitarist. In practice messing about with all those tunings between songs will be far more of a problem than worrying about these kinds of intonation issues. The number of people who would notice this are vanishingly small and must surely have come to some sort of inner peace about it. You’re better off staying in the same tuning all the time thus saving time between songs. If your guitarist winces every time he plays a chord and has already got so frustrated by these issues playing with *himself* that he’s installed the buzz-feiten tuning system, or bought a different guitar for each tuning and installed split frets with a fret per course all perfectly positioned for that particular dropped open tuning… then *perhaps* you might consider something like a buzz-feiten tuning system bass. If he’s playing a conventional guitar without concern, like millions of fine musicians do, then don’t fret about it. If you’re doing a lot of work in dropped tunings you might want to consider a 5 string bass, that way you won’t need to keep fiddling between tunes. You can cover the range more easily while keeping down low and at least you’ll be in tune. — Derek — Many Hands – Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand http://www.manyhands.co.nz/
Response:
Hi, Ive only been playing bass for a short time so sorry if this is a stupid question. Ive been jamming with a band for a while now and I’ve been using either standard tuning, or drop D tuning for all the songs we’ve been covering. Our guitar player does a lot of different tunings for the songs (standard, 1/2 step down, drop D with 1/2 step down, etc.). He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct? Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in the future. Is he correct? Any thoughts on this? I’m not saying hes right or wrong…just wondering what the deal is. Thanks.
Response:
> Is he correct?
No
Response:
sometimes if your guitar player drops to D, it’s important for you to be an octave under him, sometimes not. depends on the song and how it feels. maybe he’s right and maybe he’s wrong. it’s all a matter of opinion. it’s not about hitting the right note, it’s about the right note for the song. if it sounds better dropped down, tune that fugger down and pound away. g’luck c
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, Ive only been playing bass for a short time so sorry if this is a > stupid question. Ive been jamming with a band for a while now and I’ve > been using either standard tuning, or drop D tuning for all the songs > we’ve been covering. Our guitar player does a lot of different tunings > for the songs (standard, 1/2 step down, drop D with 1/2 step down, > etc.). He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct? > Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, > everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. > He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same > notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in > the future. Is he correct? Any thoughts on this? I’m not saying hes > right or wrong…just wondering what the deal is. Thanks.
Response:
He’s full of it. If you’re playing the correct pitch, it’ll work as long as you’re both actually in tune, regardless of what fret you’re on. The tone character of the note may differ based on where on the neck you play it (longer/shorter, heavier/lighter string vibrating at the same frequency), but if it’s the right note, it’s the right note. At worst, he won’t be able to follow your patterns when he forgets the changes…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, Ive only been playing bass for a short time so sorry if this is a > stupid question. Ive been jamming with a band for a while now and I’ve > been using either standard tuning, or drop D tuning for all the songs > we’ve been covering. Our guitar player does a lot of different tunings > for the songs (standard, 1/2 step down, drop D with 1/2 step down, > etc.). He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct? > Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, > everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. > He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same > notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in > the future. Is he correct? Any thoughts on this? I’m not saying hes > right or wrong…just wondering what the deal is. Thanks.
Response:
> Hi, Ive only been playing bass for a short time so sorry if this is a > stupid question. Ive been jamming with a band for a while now and I’ve > been using either standard tuning, or drop D tuning for all the songs > we’ve been covering. Our guitar player does a lot of different tunings > for the songs (standard, 1/2 step down, drop D with 1/2 step down, > etc.). He brought up the issue recently that I need to be in the same > tuning as him or the songs will "not sound right". Is this correct? > Like I said, Ive only been using standard and drop D as so far, > everything has sounded right. Im able to hit the correct notes, etc. > He thinks that since we’re hitting different frets to get the same > notes, that things wont sound right and this will become an issue in > the future. Is he correct? Any thoughts on this? I’m not saying hes > right or wrong…just wondering what the deal is. Thanks.
The guitarist should shut up and confine his need to overplay to his own instrument. 8-) The two methods will sound different–a tighter string fretted on 4 versus a looser string fretted on 5 will have slightly different timbral qualities and overtones–but neither is inherently superior to the other unless there’s something goofy like bass chords going on (vomit) that can only be humanly fingered in a given tuning. Basically, being this anal about this is tantamount to telling you to go buy the exact guitar, string gauge and amp the covered artist is using. I got a 5-string because I hated the sloppiness and mental gymanstics inherent in drop D on a 4-string bass. And, oh, the guitarist might be wrong too…If you wanna end the argument authoritatively, scare up a video of the artist in question performing and see what the bassist is doing on the concert video. But that’s being a bit pedantic, IMO. Best Regards, — /" ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H / | http://www.toddh.net/ X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/ / http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."
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