New peculiar rig :-)

Question:

I had this 100W PA monitor amp that has gain, volume and also bass and treble settings plus jacks for line out and extra speaker and even two inputs…and it was very small, built to fit inside an angled floor monitor. So I decided to mod a Marshall 4×10 cab by building this amp INTO the speaker cab. I did this by adding a 100W Eminence speaker for the PA amp, while the cab also has three original 10" Marshalls in it. Actually four, but the extra one is hidden inside the cab. Now I can put my Cream machine on top of it, and the CM drives the 10" speakers with all its mighty 5 W power, while I run a line from its Red Box line out to the poweramp, and get 100W more headroom and punch from the same enclosure! While I was at it, I also added some padding in the cab to cut the shrillness of the 4×10" a little, and also put some sound dissipators in front of the speaker cones to lessen projectivity. So now the tiny tube amp gives me the highs 100% tube at up to 100dB, and the SS power section and the 12" Eminence pumps out the lows the tiny amp can’t. This way I can run the setup at very little volume and still sound like a cranked Plexi, but I also have enough punch to play with drums etc. too if needed, and have the bag end and headroom too. And all I need to lug around is the 4×10" or now a 3×10"/1×12" 195W cab which is not huge at all, and the guitar in whose bag pocket the CM easily slips. Very little gear to lug! Also, if I want to, I can use my JMP-1 or a Tech-21 or any preamp and run that into the SS power section instead of the CM, AND I can still use the 10" speakers too by in that case sending them a signal from the extra speaker jack of the PA amp. OR, when they become available here, I’m perhaps going to start using a Epiphone Valve Junior head to drive the 10" speakers, I think. And because the PA amp has all the EQ and gain etc. controls needed, it’s really easy to adjust its sound too, since the CM only has volume and gain. It’s a funny amp – made by Solton – doesn’t seem to clip no matter how you drive it, I mean, it doesn’t clip ugly like an SS amp at all…built to take the feedback and abuse like a floor monitor. Now all I need is add some wheels to the cab…I’ll try to get some photos on the net later! I’ll even try to get some sounds maybe or video. Cheers, Dee

Response:

It seems like you’ll be whipping a dead horse as long as you’re using the tube preamp with a SS power amp. You’ve got it ass backwards Bro. You know what DeeAa? You’re at the level as a guitar player and musician that you’d sound good playing through anything. You’d sound better with a tube power amp and SS preamp though.

Response:

> It seems like you’ll be whipping a dead horse as long as you’re using > the tube preamp with a SS power amp. You’ve got it ass backwards > Bro.

Well, SOMEBODY has it "ass backwards," but it ain’t DeeAa. > You know what DeeAa? You’re at the level as a guitar player > and musician that you’d sound good playing through anything. You’d > sound better with a tube power amp and SS preamp though.

The Cream Machine HAS a tube power amp. Single ended 12AU7, with a small output transformer. When you use it as a preamp, you’re still using the power amp section of the Cream Machine. …not unlike early EVH, but on a smaller scale. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I had this 100W PA monitor amp that has gain, volume and also bass and > treble settings plus jacks for line out and extra speaker and even two > inputs…and it was very small, built to fit inside an angled floor > monitor. > So I decided to mod a Marshall 4×10 cab by building this amp INTO the > speaker cab. > I did this by adding a 100W Eminence speaker for the PA amp, while the > cab > also has three original 10" Marshalls in it. Actually four, but the > extra > one is hidden inside the cab. > Now I can put my Cream machine on top of it, and the CM drives the 10" > speakers with all its mighty 5 W power, while I run a line from its Red > Box > line out to the poweramp, and get 100W more headroom and punch from the > same > enclosure! While I was at it, I also added some padding in the cab to > cut > the shrillness of the 4×10" a little, and also put some sound > dissipators in > front of the speaker cones to lessen projectivity. > So now the tiny tube amp gives me the highs 100% tube at up to 100dB, > and > the SS power section and the 12" Eminence pumps out the lows the tiny > amp > can’t. > This way I can run the setup at very little volume and still sound like > a > cranked Plexi, but I also have enough punch to play with drums etc. too > if > needed, and have the bag end and headroom too. And all I need to lug > around > is the 4×10" or now a 3×10"/1×12" 195W cab which is not huge at all, > and the > guitar in whose bag pocket the CM easily slips. Very little gear to > lug! > Also, if I want to, I can use my JMP-1 or a Tech-21 or any preamp and > run > that into the SS power section instead of the CM, AND I can still use > the > 10" speakers too by in that case sending them a signal from the extra > speaker jack of the PA amp. OR, when they become available here, I’m > perhaps > going to start using a Epiphone Valve Junior head to drive the 10" > speakers, > I think. > And because the PA amp has all the EQ and gain etc. controls needed, > it’s > really easy to adjust its sound too, since the CM only has volume and > gain. > It’s a funny amp – made by Solton – doesn’t seem to clip no matter how > you > drive it, I mean, it doesn’t clip ugly like an SS amp at all…built to > take > the feedback and abuse like a floor monitor. > Now all I need is add some wheels to the cab…I’ll try to get some > photos > on the net later! I’ll even try to get some sounds maybe or video. > Cheers, > Dee

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I had this 100W PA monitor amp that has gain, volume and also bass and > treble settings plus jacks for line out and extra speaker and even two > inputs…and it was very small, built to fit inside an angled floor > monitor. > So I decided to mod a Marshall 4×10 cab by building this amp INTO the > speaker cab. > I did this by adding a 100W Eminence speaker for the PA amp, while the > cab > also has three original 10" Marshalls in it. Actually four, but the > extra > one is hidden inside the cab. > Now I can put my Cream machine on top of it, and the CM drives the 10" > speakers with all its mighty 5 W power, while I run a line from its Red > Box > line out to the poweramp, and get 100W more headroom and punch from the > same > enclosure! While I was at it, I also added some padding in the cab to > cut > the shrillness of the 4×10" a little, and also put some sound > dissipators in > front of the speaker cones to lessen projectivity. > So now the tiny tube amp gives me the highs 100% tube at up to 100dB, > and > the SS power section and the 12" Eminence pumps out the lows the tiny > amp > can’t. > This way I can run the setup at very little volume and still sound like > a > cranked Plexi, but I also have enough punch to play with drums etc. too > if > needed, and have the bag end and headroom too. And all I need to lug > around > is the 4×10" or now a 3×10"/1×12" 195W cab which is not huge at all, > and the > guitar in whose bag pocket the CM easily slips. Very little gear to > lug! > Also, if I want to, I can use my JMP-1 or a Tech-21 or any preamp and > run > that into the SS power section instead of the CM, AND I can still use > the > 10" speakers too by in that case sending them a signal from the extra > speaker jack of the PA amp. OR, when they become available here, I’m > perhaps > going to start using a Epiphone Valve Junior head to drive the 10" > speakers, > I think. > And because the PA amp has all the EQ and gain etc. controls needed, > it’s > really easy to adjust its sound too, since the CM only has volume and > gain. > It’s a funny amp – made by Solton – doesn’t seem to clip no matter how > you > drive it, I mean, it doesn’t clip ugly like an SS amp at all…built to > take > the feedback and abuse like a floor monitor. > Now all I need is add some wheels to the cab…I’ll try to get some > photos > on the net later! I’ll even try to get some sounds maybe or video. > Cheers, > Dee

> It seems like you’ll be whipping a dead horse as long as you’re using > the tube preamp with a SS power amp. You’ve got it ass backwards > Bro. You know what DeeAa? You’re at the level as a guitar player > and musician that you’d sound good playing through anything. You’d > sound better with a tube power amp and SS preamp though. > Keith, You misunderstand the setup. The ‘Cream Machine’ *IS* a complete tube amp that uses a 12A** Tube for the power section. It can put out a couple of watts into a cabinet all on it’s own and sound ok. Also, I think the CM’s line out is off of the power tube, so… However, in general principal, I agree with what you were thinking. In "Hybrid" amps, the tubes should be in the big end like Peavey and not the front end like Marshall and later hybrid attempts. Like you said: They got it bass-ackwards IMO. I *know* what he’s doing works good, because I discovered several variations of it myself many many years ago (1970s): The first was a cheesy high imp. Rat Shack mike placed inside the back of my ‘53 tweed deluxe, and plug it into the front of a 45 watt SS Peavy Pacer. Viola!!! A sweet sounding tweed Deluxe that was more than twice as loud, and now I had reverb too!!! Then I discovered how to build a rheostat attenuated voltage divider ‘line out’ circuit into the back of the tweed Deluxe in parallel with its speaker. That eliminated the mike, and increased the volume greatly. With the Deluxe stacked on top of the bigger Peavey, it was really a pretty hot little setup. Still had a hard time hearing it over my buds 50watt Marshall, and kept blowing the 12" Eminence / CTS? out of the Peavey. Ended up hogging out the baffle in the Pacer and sticking in a 100watt Rat Shack 15" guitar / bass / PA speaker. That one never burnt, and gave me a good bottom end to boot. John

Response:

> The first was a cheesy high imp. Rat Shack mike placed inside the back > of my ‘53 tweed deluxe, and plug it into the front of a 45 watt SS Peavy > Pacer. Viola!!! A sweet sounding tweed Deluxe that was more than twice > as loud, and now I had reverb too!!!

Yea, that’s the whole point – being able to use a tiny tube amp at low volumes, like the CM or maybe the Junior soon – and still generate enough additional boom via a slave amp to play with a band, if needed, but without the impossible task of overdriving a full-size tube poweramp. Sure I might like to use a 60W or so tube head thru a 4×12" but it only sounds good at volumes that they can hear in the next town even, completely unuseable. I like to be able to crank the amo to the absolute max and then even add some more imput gain to get to the real crunch…so it’s gotta be a 2-10W range amp. But those suckers, then again, have no headroom and can’t move any air. This setup gives the exact same sound but with complete control. The effect is strange; if I play just the CM and then start upping the volume on the SS part, it’s like somebody adjusts the bass and punch of the sound, like a subwoofer if you will. But you can’t tell it’s a different amp since they’re both built into the same closed enclosure and while the cones pump air, they react with each other and the result so far seems to work very well indeed. Can’t wait for the blues Jr’s to become available here, because while the CM is a nice li’l amp, it’s just lots of gain or even more…no semi-clean sounds whatsoever.

Response:

DeeAa… I’m curious, what (if anything) are you using for EQ in this setup? I’m interested in the Cream Machine, as what you’re doing now is very close to what I’ve wanted to do for years. In my case, I have a 100W solid state power amp that was the power section from an old Fender Rhodes keyboard. I’ll save the details of me and a high school buddy destroying the original cab, but regardless, I still have the amp. I also got a HUGE 2×12 cab years ago. It’s like the size of a Fender Showman cab, and I cut a square hole in one end to mount that power amp in the same way it was mounted in the Rhodes cab. So there…I have a powered, bigass 2×12 cab doing nothing. :-D Maybe I can start using it for something… I noticed you said the CM has a lot of gain. How clean can you get it? Do you think substituting the "preamp" 12AX7 for a 12AU7 or 12AT7 tame it a bit? ~jp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Yea, that’s the whole point – being able to use a tiny tube amp at low > volumes, like the CM or maybe the Junior soon – and still generate enough > additional boom via a slave amp to play with a band, if needed, but without > the impossible task of overdriving a full-size tube poweramp. > Sure I might like to use a 60W or so tube head thru a 4×12" but it only > sounds good at volumes that they can hear in the next town even, completely > unuseable. I like to be able to crank the amo to the absolute max and then > even add some more imput gain to get to the real crunch…so it’s gotta be a > 2-10W range amp. > But those suckers, then again, have no headroom and can’t move any air. > This setup gives the exact same sound but with complete control. The effect > is strange; if I play just the CM and then start upping the volume on the SS > part, it’s like somebody adjusts the bass and punch of the sound, like a > subwoofer if you will. But you can’t tell it’s a different amp since they’re > both built into the same closed enclosure and while the cones pump air, they > react with each other and the result so far seems to work very well indeed. > Can’t wait for the blues Jr’s to become available here, because while the CM > is a nice li’l amp, it’s just lots of gain or even more…no semi-clean > sounds whatsoever.

Response:

DeeAa . . . . . . My, my, my . . . you’ve been very, very busy! Hope that you’re enjoying your new toy! The Cream Machine’s a real trip, huh? Play loud . . . it drowns out the bickering, Lulu ; )

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I had this 100W PA monitor amp that has gain, volume and also bass and >treble settings plus jacks for line out and extra speaker and even two >inputs…and it was very small, built to fit inside an angled floor >monitor. > So I decided to mod a Marshall 4×10 cab by building this amp INTO the > speaker cab. > I did this by adding a 100W Eminence speaker for the PA amp, while the cab > also has three original 10" Marshalls in it. Actually four, but the extra > one is hidden inside the cab. > Now I can put my Cream machine on top of it, and the CM drives the 10" > speakers with all its mighty 5 W power, while I run a line from its Red > Box line out to the poweramp, and get 100W more headroom and punch from > the same enclosure! While I was at it, I also added some padding in the > cab to cut the shrillness of the 4×10" a little, and also put some sound > dissipators in front of the speaker cones to lessen projectivity. > So now the tiny tube amp gives me the highs 100% tube at up to 100dB, and > the SS power section and the 12" Eminence pumps out the lows the tiny amp > can’t. > This way I can run the setup at very little volume and still sound like a > cranked Plexi, but I also have enough punch to play with drums etc. too if > needed, and have the bag end and headroom too. And all I need to lug > around is the 4×10" or now a 3×10"/1×12" 195W cab which is not huge at > all, and the guitar in whose bag pocket the CM easily slips. Very little > gear to lug! > Also, if I want to, I can use my JMP-1 or a Tech-21 or any preamp and run > that into the SS power section instead of the CM, AND I can still use the > 10" speakers too by in that case sending them a signal from the extra > speaker jack of the PA amp. OR, when they become available here, I’m > perhaps going to start using a Epiphone Valve Junior head to drive the 10" > speakers, I think. > And because the PA amp has all the EQ and gain etc. controls needed, it’s > really easy to adjust its sound too, since the CM only has volume and > gain. It’s a funny amp – made by Solton – doesn’t seem to clip no matter > how you drive it, I mean, it doesn’t clip ugly like an SS amp at > all…built to take the feedback and abuse like a floor monitor. > Now all I need is add some wheels to the cab…I’ll try to get some photos > on the net later! I’ll even try to get some sounds maybe or video. > Cheers, > Dee

Response:

>How clean can you get it? Do you think substituting the "preamp" 12AX7 for a 12AU7 >or 12AT7 tame it a bit?

It may, but I doubt it. There’s a *lot* of solid state circuitry under the hood of a CM….the first thing in the signal chain is a 5532 op amp stage. Followed by many more. For the most part, its a distortion box with the gimmick of a SE triode output stage. It wouldn’t be too hard to build something purely tube with a tube output stage (maybe a SE 6AQ5 or 6BM8, 6K6) that is more versatile.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The first was a cheesy high imp. Rat Shack mike placed inside the back >of my ‘53 tweed deluxe, and plug it into the front of a 45 watt SS Peavy >Pacer. Viola!!! A sweet sounding tweed Deluxe that was more than twice >as loud, and now I had reverb too!!! > Yea, that’s the whole point – being able to use a tiny tube amp at low > volumes, like the CM or maybe the Junior soon – and still generate enough > additional boom via a slave amp to play with a band, if needed, but without > the impossible task of overdriving a full-size tube poweramp. > Sure I might like to use a 60W or so tube head thru a 4×12" but it only > sounds good at volumes that they can hear in the next town even, completely > unuseable.

Not all tube amps are unusable at lower volumes. Try a Marshall JMP 2204 with Mullard V1. I feed mine into a Hiwatt/Fane with mid 70’s lower sensitivity and darker voiced speakers. …and I hide the Hiwatt behind the back of the couch, to further reduce the SPL. Even with just preamp distortion, it sounds great. With power tube distortion, it just gets better. Over the weekend, I was enjoying my Cream Machine into my Vintage 30 cab. The Cream Machine is only about 1 true watt, but Vintage 30’s are so efficient that it is still about as loud as I usually play the 2204! I like to be able to crank the amo to the absolute max and then – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> even add some more imput gain to get to the real crunch…so it’s gotta be a > 2-10W range amp. > But those suckers, then again, have no headroom and can’t move any air. > This setup gives the exact same sound but with complete control. The effect > is strange; if I play just the CM and then start upping the volume on the SS > part, it’s like somebody adjusts the bass and punch of the sound, like a > subwoofer if you will. But you can’t tell it’s a different amp since they’re > both built into the same closed enclosure and while the cones pump air, they > react with each other and the result so far seems to work very well indeed. > Can’t wait for the blues Jr’s to become available here, because while the CM > is a nice li’l amp, it’s just lots of gain or even more…no semi-clean > sounds whatsoever.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > DeeAa… I’m curious, what (if anything) are you using for EQ in this > setup? I’m interested in the Cream Machine, as what you’re doing now > is very close to what I’ve wanted to do for years. > In my case, I have a 100W solid state power amp that was the power > section from an old Fender Rhodes keyboard. I’ll save the details of > me and a high school buddy destroying the original cab, but regardless, > I still have the amp. I also got a HUGE 2×12 cab years ago. It’s like > the size of a Fender Showman cab, and I cut a square hole in one end to > mount that power amp in the same way it was mounted in the Rhodes cab. > So there…I have a powered, bigass 2×12 cab doing nothing. :-D Maybe > I can start using it for something… I noticed you said the CM has a > lot of gain. How clean can you get it? Do you think substituting the > "preamp" 12AX7 for a 12AU7 or 12AT7 tame it a bit? > ~jp

The Cream Machine was built specifically to sound like a cranked Marshall. You will never get a pure clean tone out of it. For months, I’ve been running a 12AU7 in the preamp, but that really gives you more of a blues distortion, still NOT really clean. Last week, I put a Mullard 12ax7 back into the preamp hole, and it just sounds better. If you want a low power CLEAN tube amp, the Cream Machine is NOT for you. If you want a cranked Marshall tone, it is a great little unit. It sounds really good into Vintage 30 speakers, also. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yea, that’s the whole point – being able to use a tiny tube amp at low >volumes, like the CM or maybe the Junior soon – and still generate enough >additional boom via a slave amp to play with a band, if needed, but without >the impossible task of overdriving a full-size tube poweramp. >Sure I might like to use a 60W or so tube head thru a 4×12" but it only >sounds good at volumes that they can hear in the next town even, completely >unuseable. I like to be able to crank the amo to the absolute max and then >even add some more imput gain to get to the real crunch…so it’s gotta be a >2-10W range amp. >But those suckers, then again, have no headroom and can’t move any air. >This setup gives the exact same sound but with complete control. The effect >is strange; if I play just the CM and then start upping the volume on the SS >part, it’s like somebody adjusts the bass and punch of the sound, like a >subwoofer if you will. But you can’t tell it’s a different amp since they’re >both built into the same closed enclosure and while the cones pump air, they >react with each other and the result so far seems to work very well indeed. >Can’t wait for the blues Jr’s to become available here, because while the CM >is a nice li’l amp, it’s just lots of gain or even more…no semi-clean >sounds whatsoever.

Response:

> The Cream Machine was built specifically to sound like a cranked > Marshall. You will never get a pure clean tone out of it. For months, > I’ve been running a 12AU7 in the preamp, but that really gives you more > of a blues distortion, still NOT really clean. Last week, I put a > Mullard 12ax7 back into the preamp hole, and it just sounds better. > If you want a low power CLEAN tube amp, the Cream Machine is NOT for > you. If you want a cranked Marshall tone, it is a great little unit. > It sounds really good into Vintage 30 speakers, also.

Hmm… Well, I guess I should’ve asked more questions the first time around. Does it clean up fairly well when you roll your guitar’s volume back? I’m not looking for something with seperate, defined clean and cranked sounds. I’m looking to emulate the non-master volume vibe, and have the ability to pull back the volume for "almost" clean. Not "Twin Reverb on 3" clean. Right now, while sitting around at home in the apartment, I play through a Vibro Champ with a Tone Bone Hot British in front of it–the Tone Bone is connected with a 2ft cord, sits on top of the amp, and doesn’t get switched off. I want a basic sound that’ll let me clean it up when I pull the volume back, and when I open up the volume on the guitar, will get close to say, Angus Young’s sound on Back in Black. Preferably something that would be set, and left on 100% of the time. If I need any distortion beyond that, I could supplement it with a pedal. Of course, the whole purpose of this is to have a light weight and portable rig with controllable volume. Otherwise I’d just buy a Plexi half stack ~jp

Response:

I dont know Jim. He stated somewhere plain as day that he was using an SS power section. After looking at the Cream Machines specs I see it uses a preamp tube as a power tube? Get outta town man. If they would have used an EL34 their product might have been worth looking into. Either way DeeAa . Like I said your playing would sound good through anything you want to amplify it with. Theres plenty of options besides 50 watt amps but you know what you want and what you’re doing. I’m not going to try and convince a guy with your experience into doing anything..

> It seems like you’ll be whipping a dead horse as long as you’re using > the tube preamp with a SS power amp. You’ve got it ass backwards > Bro.

Response:

You guys but all this high tech.expensive equipment and hook it all together to try and get the sound thats sitting right in front of your eyes in one enclosure. You can laugh and scoff and shell out all the money you want . I spent $130 on a 1966 Harmony H410 that’ll overdrive like butter or clean up slicker than a whistle. I changed the coupling caps to .1 mfd,disconnnected the tremolo,added a 10" alnico speaker (in the same cabinet ) to go along with the Jensen 8" alnico that was in it. It had 3 input jacks so I got rid of one and stuck a pot in its place to control the amount of power going into the other jack that I wired to serve as a line out. To hell with micing anything. It uses a single EL84 for the power section,a 12AU7 ( orX or T or Z or V ) for the preamp and a 5Y3 for rectification. If you want to use pedals with it then of course you can but I dont use anything but a delay/echo to give the sound some depth. Why foul up tube beauty with a bunch of SS state junk?. The whole sheebang tips the scales at a whopping 12 pounds. It doesnt look like much and people may sneer at it when you come trucking into a jam. They usually change their mind once its fired up. Simplicities where its at. Old simplicity to be precise.

Response:

I can’t guarantee that you’d be happy with the Cream Machine for lower gain, but it will do it. It will do something like a cleanish Super Lead tone, but it has much more output, with the distorted tone. It really shines with gain. In fact, I think that they designed it with a bit TOO MUCH gain (of course half of my guitars are active, and all but one passive have high output pickups). Depending on your guitar, it may or may not sound good dialing back your volume settings. Passive guitars tend to get darker as you dial down the volume (unless you have a treble bleed cap installed). If you have an EQ pedal, you might be happier. > Right now, while sitting around at home in the apartment, I play > through a Vibro Champ with a Tone Bone Hot British in front of it–the > Tone Bone is connected with a 2ft cord, sits on top of the amp, and > doesn’t get switched off. > I want a basic sound that’ll let me clean it up when I pull the volume > back, and when I open up the volume on the guitar, will get close to > say, Angus Young’s sound on Back in Black.

It has AC/DC gain level, and much, much more. Remember that the power section is single ended, and a small tube. The power distortion is a bit smoother than AC/DC, and without the thump. > Preferably something that > would be set, and left on 100% of the time.

Well, I just spent a couple of hours over the weekend using the CM as an amp. I’ve owned this unit for a few years, but a few observations from this weekend: I found a Mullard 12AX7 that sounds really good in the preamp hole, and I’ve been using a vintage Tung Sol 12AU7 in the power hole. Tube selection DOES make a difference. It sounds MUCH better with my Vintage 30 cab than either of my Hiwatt cabs. My favorite Hiwatt for Marshall is 16 ohms. The CM doesn’t really like 16 ohms. I have another Hiwatt that is 8 ohms, but it sounds a bit harsh through that cab. It is designed for 8 ohms, but I seem to get best results at FOUR ohms, and it seems to have the most output at 4. I’m not sure how hard I’m hitting my Tung Sol, but it sure does sound good. I used to just peg the master, and then turn up the gain (going after max power tube distortion). However, at least at four ohm load, it sounds better with the master rolled off a bit. I used to run preamp at two or below. However, with this particular Mullard, and master dialed back a bit, it sounds good at 12:00 and a little higher. BUT, it is quite noisy at higher settings. It really benefits from EQ and noise gate. EQ *after* the CM when driving another amp. > If I need any distortion > beyond that, I could supplement it with a pedal.

I can’t imagine any guitar *needing* a pedal with the CM. It is very gainy. > Of course, the whole purpose of this is to have a light weight and > portable rig with controllable volume.

That, it will do. And it’ll impress fellow guitarists. It’s very small, but has big tone (considering the tiny output transformer). > Otherwise I’d just buy a Plexi > half stack

Well, a properly set up JMP 2204 into the right speakers also sounds very good at low volumes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ~jp

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You guys but all this high tech.expensive equipment and hook it all > together to try and get the sound thats sitting right in front of your > eyes in one enclosure. You can laugh and scoff and shell out all the > money you want . I spent $130 on a 1966 Harmony H410 that’ll overdrive > like butter or clean up slicker than a whistle. I changed the coupling > caps to .1 mfd,disconnnected the tremolo,added a 10" alnico speaker (in > the same cabinet ) to go along with the Jensen 8" alnico that was in > it. It had 3 input jacks so I got rid of one and stuck a pot in its > place to control the amount of power going into the other jack that I > wired to serve as a line out. To hell with micing anything. It uses a > single EL84 for the power section,a 12AU7 ( orX or T or Z or V ) for > the preamp and a 5Y3 for rectification. If you want to use pedals with > it then of course you can but I dont use anything but a delay/echo to > give the sound some depth. Why foul up tube beauty with a bunch of SS > state junk?.

Is that what you would’ve said to EVH in the late 70’s? He ran a Super Lead with a variac into a dummy load, then to SOLID STATE power amps. If you have the tone that you want, from a unit that uses TUBES in the output section, I am not opposed to using SS simply to boost the TUBE tone. > The whole sheebang tips the scales at a whopping 12 > pounds. It doesnt look like much and people may sneer at it when you > come trucking into a jam. They usually change their mind once its fired > up. Simplicities where its at. Old simplicity to be precise.

There are many ways to skin a cat. You found one, DeeAa found another. I also have a similar solution in my collection. I have a few single ended EL84 type amps that started life in reel to reel tape machines (that I modified for guitar). In reality, they are not totally unlike a beefier version of the Cream Machine! In fact, one of my unfinished projects is an amp that will use a STEREO single ended EL84 type from the reel to reel. You can run one side as a stand alone. Disconnect the speaker, it will engage a dummy load. It’ll have a variable line out after the OPT (like the Matchless Spitfire circuit). You will be able to drive that half of the stereo amp for power tube distortion, then use the variable line out to patch it to the other side of the power amp. Result = power tube distortion at LOW volumes (zero to about 8W). You can also run the line out to a bigger amp (tube or SS), for more volume. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I had this 100W PA monitor amp that has gain, volume and also bass and > treble settings plus jacks for line out and extra speaker and even two > inputs…and it was very small, built to fit inside an angled floor > monitor. > So I decided to mod a Marshall 4×10 cab by building this amp INTO the > speaker cab. > I did this by adding a 100W Eminence speaker for the PA amp, while the > cab > also has three original 10" Marshalls in it. Actually four, but the > extra > one is hidden inside the cab. > Now I can put my Cream machine on top of it, and the CM drives the 10" > speakers with all its mighty 5 W power, while I run a line from its Red > Box > line out to the poweramp, and get 100W more headroom and punch from the > same > enclosure! While I was at it, I also added some padding in the cab to > cut > the shrillness of the 4×10" a little, and also put some sound > dissipators in > front of the speaker cones to lessen projectivity. > So now the tiny tube amp gives me the highs 100% tube at up to 100dB, > and > the SS power section and the 12" Eminence pumps out the lows the tiny > amp > can’t. > This way I can run the setup at very little volume and still sound like > a > cranked Plexi, but I also have enough punch to play with drums etc. too > if > needed, and have the bag end and headroom too. And all I need to lug > around > is the 4×10" or now a 3×10"/1×12" 195W cab which is not huge at all, > and the > guitar in whose bag pocket the CM easily slips. Very little gear to > lug! > Also, if I want to, I can use my JMP-1 or a Tech-21 or any preamp and > run > that into the SS power section instead of the CM, AND I can still use > the > 10" speakers too by in that case sending them a signal from the extra > speaker jack of the PA amp. OR, when they become available here, I’m > perhaps > going to start using a Epiphone Valve Junior head to drive the 10" > speakers, > I think. > And because the PA amp has all the EQ and gain etc. controls needed, > it’s > really easy to adjust its sound too, since the CM only has volume and > gain. > It’s a funny amp – made by Solton – doesn’t seem to clip no matter how > you > drive it, I mean, it doesn’t clip ugly like an SS amp at all…built to > take > the feedback and abuse like a floor monitor. > Now all I need is add some wheels to the cab…I’ll try to get some > photos > on the net later! I’ll even try to get some sounds maybe or video. > Cheers, > Dee

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The Cream Machine was built specifically to sound like a cranked >Marshall. You will never get a pure clean tone out of it. For months, >I’ve been running a 12AU7 in the preamp, but that really gives you more >of a blues distortion, still NOT really clean. Last week, I put a >Mullard 12ax7 back into the preamp hole, and it just sounds better. >If you want a low power CLEAN tube amp, the Cream Machine is NOT for >you. If you want a cranked Marshall tone, it is a great little unit. >It sounds really good into Vintage 30 speakers, also. > Hmm… Well, I guess I should’ve asked more questions the first time > around. Does it clean up fairly well when you roll your guitar’s > volume back? > I’m not looking for something with seperate, defined clean and cranked > sounds. I’m looking to emulate the non-master volume vibe, and have > the ability to pull back the volume for "almost" clean. Not "Twin > Reverb on 3" clean. > Right now, while sitting around at home in the apartment, I play > through a Vibro Champ with a Tone Bone Hot British in front of it–the > Tone Bone is connected with a 2ft cord, sits on top of the amp, and > doesn’t get switched off. > I want a basic sound that’ll let me clean it up when I pull the volume > back, and when I open up the volume on the guitar, will get close to > say, Angus Young’s sound on Back in Black. Preferably something that > would be set, and left on 100% of the time. If I need any distortion > beyond that, I could supplement it with a pedal. > Of course, the whole purpose of this is to have a light weight and > portable rig with controllable volume. Otherwise I’d just buy a Plexi > half stack > ~jp

Check out the post about the Blues Master on ebay. If you want more clean headroom, you might like it better.

Response:

1. You’re sick. 2. I hate you*. 3. I want one one those! — Thad *Only because I’m eaten up with jealousy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> DeeAa… I’m curious, what (if anything) are you using for EQ in this > setup? I’m interested in the Cream Machine, as what you’re doing now > is very close to what I’ve wanted to do for years. > In my case, I have a 100W solid state power amp that was the power > section from an old Fender Rhodes keyboard. I’ll save the details of > me and a high school buddy destroying the original cab, but regardless, > I still have the amp. I also got a HUGE 2×12 cab years ago. It’s like > the size of a Fender Showman cab, and I cut a square hole in one end to > mount that power amp in the same way it was mounted in the Rhodes cab. > So there…I have a powered, bigass 2×12 cab doing nothing. :-D Maybe > I can start using it for something… I noticed you said the CM has a > lot of gain. How clean can you get it? Do you think substituting the > "preamp" 12AX7 for a 12AU7 or 12AT7 tame it a bit?

Hello Jon, I think it was Jim who suggested changing the tubes to 12AU7, or at least one of them, and that does work very well in the 2nd position, which I gather is the ‘power amp’ tube. It gives a much more poweramp-type sound since it doesn’t saturate like a 12AX7. He’s got lotsa experience with the CM. It might be a tube issue, but I find that using two AU7’s makes the sound very cold, albeit much clearer – however the lack of that warm saturation makes it sound thin too. So the first one is a an AX7 for me. And using that, well, the unit really can’t do clean sounds at all, it’s pretty crunchy all the time. I do get acceptable dirty-clean sound by using a singlecoil and dropping the guitar volume a bit, but it’s nowhere near ‘clean’ anyway. But basically what CM can do well is hotrod-cranked plexi; quite biting and high-rangey but singing, screaming sound. And nothing else almost. As for EQ, I don’t really use one, although the poweramp does have treble and bass knobs. I’ve ‘EQ’ed all my guitars with a tone pot and a suitable capacitor there, and the rest comes from the cab, i.e. it can’t reproduce the highest sounds anyway, having no tweeter or horn but just 10" and 12" speakers. So I think you’d do fine even without an EQ. But if you’d like to use it for recording, you really need a HUSH unit or something, the thing is pretty noisey. I’m looking for a small pedal to do that currently, don’t know if there are any good and cheap ones available, but my old HUSH 3 19" unit seems to be broken or gone bad somehow. Cheers, Dee p.s. I experimented last night by dividing the signal in two via a chorus before the CM and amp, and drove the 10" with the CM and the poweramp thru a Tech21 pedal also (the poweramp has 2 inputs), and if I set both to very similar AC/DC-esque settings, it sounded really good too, mixed the two sounds surprisingly well. So I’m podering about trying various combinations too…

Response:

> The Cream Machine was built specifically to sound like a cranked Marshall. > You will never get a pure clean tone out of it. For months, I’ve been > running a 12AU7 in the preamp, but that really gives you more of a blues > distortion, still NOT really clean. Last week, I put a Mullard 12ax7 back > into the preamp hole, and it just sounds better. > If you want a low power CLEAN tube amp, the Cream Machine is NOT for you. > If you want a cranked Marshall tone, it is a great little unit. It sounds > really good into Vintage 30 speakers, also.

Exactly!

Response:

> Over the weekend, I was enjoying my Cream Machine into my Vintage 30 cab. > The Cream Machine is only about 1 true watt, but Vintage 30’s are so > efficient that it is still about as loud as I usually play the 2204!

Heu, You said the CM liked 4 ohms pretty well…how did that go again; if I have a 4×12" with 4 8ohm speakers, the two are in series and then the pairs are parallel; that gives a total of 8. But how did it go again? is it like in series the resistance drops, so 4 ohms in parallel again creates 8 ohms? or was it the other way ’round? Too early in the morning my brain don’t work. But if I rip off one speaker, leaving two 8 ohm speakers in series and a single 8 ohm speaker, does that change it to, what, 12 ohms? Hmm….How could one drop the resistance of 4 8-ohm speakers to 4 ohms? Maybe just using the 2 speakers in series?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You guys but all this high tech.expensive equipment and hook it all > together to try and get the sound thats sitting right in front of your > eyes in one enclosure. You can laugh and scoff and shell out all the > money you want . I spent $130 on a 1966 Harmony H410 that’ll overdrive > like butter or clean up slicker than a whistle. I changed the coupling > caps to .1 mfd,disconnnected the tremolo,added a 10" alnico speaker (in > the same cabinet ) to go along with the Jensen 8" alnico that was in > it. It had 3 input jacks so I got rid of one and stuck a pot in its > place to control the amount of power going into the other jack that I > wired to serve as a line out. To hell with micing anything. It uses a > single EL84 for the power section,a 12AU7 ( orX or T or Z or V ) for > the preamp and a 5Y3 for rectification. If you want to use pedals with > it then of course you can but I dont use anything but a delay/echo to > give the sound some depth. Why foul up tube beauty with a bunch of SS > state junk?. The whole sheebang tips the scales at a whopping 12 > pounds. It doesnt look like much and people may sneer at it when you > come trucking into a jam. They usually change their mind once its fired > up. Simplicities where its at. Old simplicity to be precise.

Sounds like a sweet one! But where’d I find something like that? Can’t even find moderately priced Marshall tube amps here, let alone vintage ones

Response:

> I dont know Jim. He stated somewhere plain as day that he was using an > SS power section. After looking at the Cream Machines specs I see it > uses a preamp tube as a power tube?

Yes. 12AU7 for about a watt. > Get outta town man. If they would > have used an EL34 their product might have been worth looking into.

Before rejecting it, HAVE YOU PLAYED ONE??? An EL34 would defeat the purpose of the Cream Machine, because it would put out too much power and be too loud. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Either way DeeAa . Like I said your playing would sound good through > anything you want to amplify it with. Theres plenty of options besides > 50 watt amps but you know what you want and what you’re doing. I’m not > going to try and convince a guy with your experience into doing > anything.. >It seems like you’ll be whipping a dead horse as long as you’re using >the tube preamp with a SS power amp. You’ve got it ass backwards >Bro. > Well, SOMEBODY has it "ass backwards," but it ain’t DeeAa. >You know what DeeAa? You’re at the level as a guitar player >and musician that you’d sound good playing through anything. > You’d >sound better with a tube power amp and SS preamp though. > The Cream Machine HAS a tube power amp. Single ended 12AU7, with a > small output transformer. When you use it as a preamp, you’re still > using the power amp section of the Cream Machine. …not unlike early > EVH, but on a smaller scale. >I had this 100W PA monitor amp that has gain, volume and also bass > and >treble settings plus jacks for line out and extra speaker and even > two >inputs…and it was very small, built to fit inside an angled floor >monitor. >So I decided to mod a Marshall 4×10 cab by building this amp INTO the >speaker cab. >I did this by adding a 100W Eminence speaker for the PA amp, while > the >cab >also has three original 10" Marshalls in it. Actually four, but the >extra >one is hidden inside the cab. >Now I can put my Cream machine on top of it, and the CM drives the > 10" >speakers with all its mighty 5 W power, while I run a line from its > Red >Box >line out to the poweramp, and get 100W more headroom and punch from > the >same >enclosure! While I was at it, I also added some padding in the cab to >cut >the shrillness of the 4×10" a little, and also put some sound >dissipators in >front of the speaker cones to lessen projectivity. >So now the tiny tube amp gives me the highs 100% tube at up to 100dB, >and >the SS power section and the 12" Eminence pumps out the lows the tiny >amp >can’t. >This way I can run the setup at very little volume and still sound > like >a >cranked Plexi, but I also have enough punch to play with drums etc. > too >if >needed, and have the bag end and headroom too. And all I need to lug >around >is the 4×10" or now a 3×10"/1×12" 195W cab which is not huge at all, >and the >guitar in whose bag pocket the CM easily slips. Very little gear to >lug! >Also, if I want to, I can use my JMP-1 or a Tech-21 or any preamp and >run >that into the SS power section instead of the CM, AND I can still use >the >10" speakers too by in that case sending them a signal from the extra >speaker jack of the PA amp. OR, when they become available here, I’m >perhaps >going to start using a Epiphone Valve Junior head to drive the 10" >speakers, >I think. >And because the PA amp has all the EQ and gain etc. controls needed, >it’s >really easy to adjust its sound too, since the CM only has volume and >gain. >It’s a funny amp – made by Solton – doesn’t seem to clip no matter > how >you >drive it, I mean, it doesn’t clip ugly like an SS amp at all…built > to >take >the feedback and abuse like a floor monitor. >Now all I need is add some wheels to the cab…I’ll try to get some >photos >on the net later! I’ll even try to get some sounds maybe or video. >Cheers, >Dee

Response:

>>Over the weekend, I was enjoying my Cream Machine into my Vintage 30 cab. >The Cream Machine is only about 1 true watt, but Vintage 30’s are so >efficient that it is still about as loud as I usually play the 2204! > Heu, > You said the CM liked 4 ohms pretty well.

So far, so good. ..how did that go again; if I have > a 4×12" with 4 8ohm speakers, the two are in series and then the pairs are > parallel; that gives a total of 8. But how did it go again? is it like in > series the resistance drops,

Series adds for resistance. so 4 ohms in parallel again creates 8 ohms? or > was it the other way ’round?

Yep. Too early in the morning my brain don’t work. > But if I rip off one speaker, leaving two 8 ohm speakers in series and a > single 8 ohm speaker, does that change it to, what, 12 ohms? Hmm….How > could one drop the resistance of 4 8-ohm speakers to 4 ohms? Maybe just > using the 2 speakers in series?

No, using two 8 ohm in parallel would be four ohms.

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