What's the use of the Send/Return Loop
Question:
Hello, Behind Fender amps there are 2 jack connectors for the effect Send/Return loop. When to use this loop exactly? For instance, I have a distortion pedal, should I plug it here or between my guitar and my amp? Thank you for your help
Response:
> Hello, > Behind Fender amps there are 2 jack connectors for the effect Send/Return > loop. When to use this loop exactly? For instance, I have a distortion > pedal, should I plug it here or between my guitar and my amp? > Thank you for your help
Both will work.
Response:
> Hello, > Behind Fender amps there are 2 jack connectors for the effect Send/Return > loop. When to use this loop exactly? For instance, I have a distortion > pedal, should I plug it here or between my guitar and my amp?
Though some nut case said both will work. You should use the loop for delay type effects. Flanger, digital delay, chorus, phaser stuff like that. Any distortion should really be before the preamp stage. Also every loop I have tried seemed to artificially boost the volume while the effect was on. I do not like that. — The Pentatonic Scale Explained http://bluechainlightning.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thank you for your help
Response:
>Hello, >Behind Fender amps there are 2 jack connectors for the effect Send/Return >loop. When to use this loop exactly? For instance, I have a distortion >pedal, should I plug it here or between my guitar and my amp? >Thank you for your help
Distortion pedals belong in front of the amp. Time based pedals, like delays seem to be better suited for effects loops.
Response:
>> Hello, > Behind Fender amps there are 2 jack connectors for the effect Send/Return > loop. When to use this loop exactly? For instance, I have a distortion > pedal, should I plug it here or between my guitar and my amp? > Though some nut case said both will work. You should use the loop > for delay type effects. Flanger, digital delay, chorus, phaser stuff like > that. Any distortion should really be before the preamp stage. Also > every loop I have tried seemed to artificially boost the volume while > the effect was on. I do not like that.
Some whack job has his likes and dislikes like everyone else (laughing). Who knows man? Niether of my amps (‘59 Tweed Bassman R.I., and a Musicman 2X10) has an efx. loop, but a Zoom GFX-8 in my signal chain does, and I put Fulltone’s Full Drive2 in it. Shrug. "The Pentatonic Scale Explained". No wonder *this* went _RIGHT_ over that poor guy’s pin head 
For Guitar Players: Modal Playing Made _Practical_ by Marc Mulay www.geocities.com/mvm55555 This merely addresses the practical playing applicability of each modal form of the diatonic major scale as illustrated. Scroll down now and look at each modal ‘box’. Note where to the right, I’ve noted the chord it best fits with on a stand-alone basis. As an aside, if you’re pretty good with the whole Andy Summers palette of sus2, sus4, add2 add4 then any of the modal ii, iii, or vi forms will sound great with them. We’re "beginning at the beginning" of the neck, first position, first note, 6th string, the note "F". In these diagrams, beginning with a blank space -sometimes two- is obviously where you would jump forward on a string a fret or two away from the nut, toward your bridge. _ILLUSTRATIVE_KEY_: * * * = "1,3,5" As in, root, skip a fret hit, skip a fret hit. * * * = "1,2,4" As in, fret, next fret hit, skip a fret hit. * * * = "1,3,4" As in, fret, skip a fret hit, next fret hit. _ALL_NUMBERS_ARE_FRET_NUMBERS_ Major / "Ionian" ; Start | | 1 3 5 6th "FAT" 1 3 5 2 3 5 <—NUT –BRIDGE Chord I: F, FMaj7, Maj9th 2 3 5 3 5 6 3 5 6 1st "THIN" Now Dorian- 3 5 6 3 5 7 3 5 7 Chord ii: Gm, Gm7, Gm9 3 5 7 5 6 8 5 6 8 Gitcha some phrygian now baby! 5 6 8 5 7 8 5 7 8 Chord iii: Am, Am7, Am9 5 7 9 6 8 10 6 8 10 Lydian: 6 8 10 7 8 10 7 8 10 Chord IV: BbMaj, BbMaj7, BbMaj9 7 9 10 8 10 11 8 10 12 Mixolydian: 8 10 12 8 10 12 8 10 12 You know this and the next 2 9 10 12 10 11 13 10 12 13 Aeolian: 10 12 13 10 12 13 10 12 14 10 12 14 11 13 15 12 13 15 Finally, the 7th mode of the Major scale, Locrian: 12 13 15 12 13 15 12 14 15 12 14 15 13 15 17 13 15 17 Note- your first finger is now back on the ‘F’ note of the 1st string at the 13th fret. This all begins again with the Ionian scale at the 13th fret, just as was the case at the first fret; 13 15 17 6th "FAT" 13 15 17 1415 17 <—NUT — BRIDGE 1415 17 15 17 18 15 17 18 1st "THIN" Notice that each modal form ends with a three note sequence on the 1st string which defines the exact same three notes of the 6th string beginning the next mode! This is central to seeing the bigger picture; how the modal forms all smoothly interlock to create a perfectly connected "treadmill" on the neck. Next, how to link them up, hop around, where they fit into chords, and how they’re over-layed by every one of the five M/m Pentas and Blues grids. As is the case with virtually every athletic sport, there’s *NO* way around proficiency with modal playing other than…repetition. Alternate picking: Starting with Ionian, walk the form at each position on the neck from the first to the 15th fret. AT EACH FRET, PLAY THE MODE IN REVERSE TOO. FORWARD, REVERSE. THEN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT FRET. Don’t start Dorian until you’ve "mastered" Ionian Same with Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrian. WHEN YOU HAVE DONE THIS, PAUSE, THEN STARTING WITH ‘F IONIAN’ RUN IT INTO G DORIAN—A PHRYGIAN—Bb LYDIAN to E Locrian a couple of times. Get each "mastered" before moving on to the next. You are building a powerful foundation. THIS is training. Self-discipline. You’re getting all of this stuff under your fingers and deeply into muscle memory. Day after day, week after week, month after month. It’s the only way. Do it. Now Diatonic Theory is just taking a scale and building chords on top of each root note. Here’s where common sense/logic should lock into place for you regarding the diatonic layout of the major scale re; R 3 5 and 7. [btw- Chord extensions to 9ths, 11ths and 13th's apply too!] The ‘F’ major scale is what we’ll look at(because we’ve laid out the whole modal/scale system from Fret 1, 6th string, note ‘F’ as an ‘agreed-upon’ begin with the beginning point, purely for logical flow illustrative purposes). I ii iii IV V vi vii F Gm7 Am7 BbMaj7 C7 Dm7 Ebm7b5 The modes, Ionian-Locrian can just as easily be named 1-7. (I-vii). They line up perfectly with the sequential progression above and in every other key. Don’t ever ‘F-up’ by forgetting that there’s always a 1/2 step hop between iii and IV. Also, note- I, IV and V are always major, thus upper case for illustrative purposes. ii, iii, vi, and sorta vii are all minor, thus lower case. The minor modes, Dorian, Phrgian and Aeolian, -alway fit over minor chords. The major modes, Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian -over the major chords. The Locrian was made for the half diminished or m7b5 chord. If you’re a rocker or bluzer, that ranks right up there with what’s a little toe for anyway? Shhhhhhhhwiiiingggggggg Where all of this work begins to turn to fun, and then payoff, is where you integrate the overlay of the modal system over pentatonic or blues boxes. Any/every player can find these, however for basic illustrative purposes, let’s say you’re playing ye old Blues Box #1 at the 5th fret: A. 5 8 .046 5 6 7 5 7 <— Box #1 5 7 5 8 5 8 .010 Now, play the Dorian form _there_, starting of course at A, 6th string, 5th fret. Voila. You’re locked in. Toward the bridge into phrygian or back toward the nut into Ionian, then Locrian…again, if you want to work this back toward the nut and forward, you’re in A Blues by playing your Locrian form starting at the 2nd Fret, F# 6th string and moving forward. As you internalize the whole modal system over time, you’ll get to the point you’ve probably been stuck at with pentatonic or blues boxes in that you’re probably comfortable jumping from "Blues Box 1" -say at the 5th fret(keyed off the 6th string), to say, "Blues Box 3" at the 10th fret. In this instance, the modal form equivalent would be to play that A Dorian form starting at A, 6th string, 5th fret, and leap up to the Mixolydian form at the 10th fret. It all starts to really "happen" for you as you think less and play more…timing, rhythm, dynamics like bends, hammer ons and pull offs in conjunction with the tone(s) YOUR ear digs make all this grunt work pay off with tons of extra colors and textures. The real key is grabbing phrases from each form and making them YOUR licks. Jam OWN it
Response:
Agreed across the board, including the observation about taste being the final arbiter. But no one mentioned WHY time-based effects are often preferred in the loop, and why distortion pedals are generally avoided there. I can describe why in terms of sound (it simply sounds better), but I’m not sure I understand the technical reasons. Maybe it’s because the loop does tend to add a tiny bit of pre-amp to the effect -which doesn’t help a distortion pedal, but does seem to really bring out the best a delay pedal has to offer. I can live quite easily without a loop, but when I am using an amp that has one, I tend to use it. Chuck (who has fired yet another drummer and is ready to declare jihad on percussionists in general) www.monkeychild.com
Response:
>Chuck (who has fired yet another drummer and is ready to declare jihad >on percussionists in general) >www.monkeychild.com
If your band had two drummers, you could fire twice as many. Pete (it has a good beat, and I can dance to it)
Response:
> >Chuck (who has fired yet another drummer and is ready to declare jihad >on percussionists in general) >www.monkeychild.com > If your band had two drummers, you could fire twice as many. > Pete (it has a good beat, and I can dance to it)
That would be like having two wives. One is more than sufficient. Chuck (auditioning one tomorrow) (drummer I mean)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hello, >Behind Fender amps there are 2 jack connectors for the effect Send/Return >loop. When to use this loop exactly? For instance, I have a distortion >pedal, should I plug it here or between my guitar and my amp? > Though some nut case said both will work. You should use the loop > for delay type effects. Flanger, digital delay, chorus, phaser stuff like > that. Any distortion should really be before the preamp stage. Also > every loop I have tried seemed to artificially boost the volume while > the effect was on. I do not like that.
I agree that you should generally go DISTORTION > TIME BASED EFFECTS > AMPLIFICATION. However, some distortion devices give you line level ins and outs, and might sound better in the loop. You can STILL follow such a distortion with your time based effects, then back to the return!
Response:
> Agreed across the board, including the observation about taste being > the final arbiter. But no one mentioned WHY time-based effects are > often preferred in the loop, and why distortion pedals are generally > avoided there. I can describe why in terms of sound (it simply sounds > better), but I’m not sure I understand the technical reasons.
The first technical reason you generally don’t want a distortion pedal in the loop is that the input level will be too hot and you’ll overdrive the pedal to the point it sounds like POO. But there are distortion units that give you line level inputs (like the rackmount Chandler Tube Driver). As far as not using chorus, flange, phase, reverb… before distortion goes, all you do is distort the effect an lose most of it in noise. Some guys like a short delay in front of distortion. It thickens the tone in a different way than placing it after the distortion. Maybe > it’s because the loop does tend to add a tiny bit of pre-amp to the > effect -which doesn’t help a distortion pedal,
Too hot of a level. but does seem to really > bring out the best a delay pedal has to offer.
If you play dead clean, it makes less of a difference. The problem is using time based before preamp distortion. Note that you could be following the loop with power tube crunch. But I don’t know of any effects that work at speaker level! …other than mike the amp, THEN put time based effects in the chain to the PA or second clean amp. When recording, I’d put time based stuff AFTER the speaker. I can live quite easily – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> without a loop, but when I am using an amp that has one, I tend to use > it. > Chuck (who has fired yet another drummer and is ready to declare jihad > on percussionists in general) > www.monkeychild.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Hello, >> Behind Fender amps there are 2 jack connectors for the effect >> Send/Return >> loop. When to use this loop exactly? For instance, I have a distortion >> pedal, should I plug it here or between my guitar and my amp? > Though some nut case said both will work. You should use the loop > for delay type effects. Flanger, digital delay, chorus, phaser stuff like > that. Any distortion should really be before the preamp stage. Also > every loop I have tried seemed to artificially boost the volume while > the effect was on. I do not like that. > I agree that you should generally go DISTORTION > TIME BASED EFFECTS > > AMPLIFICATION. > However, some distortion devices give you line level ins and outs, and > might sound better in the loop. You can STILL follow such a distortion > with your time based effects, then back to the return!
Check out std. GFX-8 order of eeffects w/in a patch; http://www.fineclaymatrix.co.uk/gfx8/gfx8_effects.htm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Hello, >> Behind Fender amps there are 2 jack connectors for the effect >> Send/Return >> loop. When to use this loop exactly? For instance, I have a distortion >> pedal, should I plug it here or between my guitar and my amp? > Though some nut case said both will work. You should use the loop > for delay type effects. Flanger, digital delay, chorus, phaser stuff like > that. Any distortion should really be before the preamp stage. Also > every loop I have tried seemed to artificially boost the volume while > the effect was on. I do not like that. > I agree that you should generally go DISTORTION > TIME BASED EFFECTS > > AMPLIFICATION. > However, some distortion devices give you line level ins and outs, and > might sound better in the loop. You can STILL follow such a distortion > with your time based effects, then back to the return!
Effects list Drive Module 1. Fdr Clean 2. Fdr Drive 3. Ms Crunch 4. Ms Drive 5. Bg Drive 6. Pvy Drive – Lovely distortion! 7. Vx Crunch 8. Power Lead 9. Vintage Over Drive 10. Over Drive 11. Vintage Distortion 12. Distortion 13. Fuzz 14. Wild Metal 15. Compressor 16. Comp+Crunch 17. Comp+Over Drive 18. Comp+Distortion 19. External Distortion 20. Acoustic – clean and quiet 21. User Custom 1 22. User Custom 2 Znr/Eq Module 23. Znr(Zoom Noise Reduction) 24. Equalizer 25. Amp Simulator Modulation Module 26. Chorus – make guitar sound thicker 27. Ce Chorus – warm 28. Vibrate 29. Flanger – a jet engine swooshing effect 30. Phase – swooping effect 31. Tremolo – up and down volume change 32. Pedal Wah 33. Auto Wah 34. Step – odd steping modulation effect 35. Cry – talking modulator 36. Pitch Shifter 37. Pedal Pitch 38. Ring Modulator – creates harmonics, often metallic sounding (usually crap) 39. Slow Attack – violin like, volume rise with each note picked 40. Delay – echo effect 41. Timetrip – varies delay depending on picking speed 42. Bpm Delay – delay with respect to Beats Per Minute 43. Hold Delay 44. Tremolo+Chorus 45. Ring Modulator+Vibrate 46. Custom1 47. Custom2 Delay/Reverb Module 48. Hall Reverb – adds spacious feel as though in a hall 49. Room Reverb 50. Delay+Hall 51. Delay+Room 52. Pinpong Delay – delay ping pongs left and right 53. Seamless Delay – delay continues for up to 3 seconds after patch change 54. Chorus+Delay 55. Echo 56. Stereo Chorus 57. Autopan – stereo focus shifts between left and right 58. Pitchshifter+Delay 59. Bend Chorus – pitch bending follows picked notes 60. Jam Play – see here Sfx Module 61. Sampler – see here 62. Autowah+Tremolo 63.Gate Reverb – reverb effect for which the envelope (attack, decay) can be specified 64. Harmonized Pitchshifter – harmonics added according a particular key 65. Twin Pitchshifter – two pitch shifters 66. Sample&Hold – samples a picked note and holds it 67. Synth Efect – Creates a synthesiser sound 68. Custom 1 69. Custom 2
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Hello, >>> Behind Fender amps there are 2 jack connectors for the effect >>> Send/Return loop. When to use this loop exactly? For instance, I have a >>> distortion pedal, should I plug it here or between my guitar and my amp? > I agree that you should generally go DISTORTION > TIME BASED EFFECTS > > AMPLIFICATION. > However, some distortion devices give you line level ins and outs, and > might sound better in the loop. You can STILL follow such a > distortion with your time based effects, then back to the return! > GFX-8 Effects list > Drive Module > 1. Fdr Clean > 2. Fdr Drive > 3. Ms Crunch > 4. Ms Drive > 5. Bg Drive > 6. Pvy Drive – Lovely distortion! > 7. Vx Crunch > 8. Power Lead > 9. Vintage Over Drive > 10. Over Drive > 11. Vintage Distortion > 12. Distortion > 13. Fuzz > 14. Wild Metal > 15. Compressor > 16. Comp+Crunch > 17. Comp+Over Drive > 18. Comp+Distortion > 19. External Distortion > 20. Acoustic – clean and quiet > 21. User Custom 1 > 22. User Custom 2 > Znr/Eq Module > 23. Znr(Zoom Noise Reduction) > 24. Equalizer > 25. Amp Simulator > Modulation Module > 26. Chorus – make guitar sound thicker > 27. Ce Chorus – warm > 28. Vibrate > 29. Flanger – a jet engine swooshing effect > 30. Phase – swooping effect > 31. Tremolo – up and down volume change > 32. Pedal Wah > 33. Auto Wah > 34. Step – odd steping modulation effect > 35. Cry – talking modulator > 36. Pitch Shifter > 37. Pedal Pitch > 38. Ring Modulator – creates harmonics, often metallic sounding (usually > crap) > 39. Slow Attack – violin like, volume rise with each note picked > 40. Delay – echo effect > 41. Timetrip – varies delay depending on picking speed > 42. Bpm Delay – delay with respect to Beats Per Minute > 43. Hold Delay > 44. Tremolo+Chorus > 45. Ring Modulator+Vibrate > 46. Custom1 > 47. Custom2 > Delay/Reverb Module > 48. Hall Reverb – adds spacious feel as though in a hall > 49. Room Reverb > 50. Delay+Hall > 51. Delay+Room > 52. Pinpong Delay – delay ping pongs left and right > 53. Seamless Delay – delay continues for up to 3 seconds after patch > change > 54. Chorus+Delay > 55. Echo > 56. Stereo Chorus > 57. Autopan – stereo focus shifts between left and right > 58. Pitchshifter+Delay > 59. Bend Chorus – pitch bending follows picked notes > 60. Jam Play – see here > Sfx Module > 61. Sampler – see here > 62. Autowah+Tremolo > 63.Gate Reverb – reverb effect for which the envelope (attack, decay) > can be specified > 64. Harmonized Pitchshifter – harmonics added according a particular key > 65. Twin Pitchshifter – two pitch shifters > 66. Sample&Hold – samples a picked note and holds it > 67. Synth Efect – Creates a synthesiser sound > 68. Custom 1 > 69. Custom 2
FYI- Key for Drive module above; <GFX-8> FDR CLEAN: Fender Twin Clean channel FD DRIVE: Fender Twin Drive channel MS CRUNCH: Marshall JCM800 MS DRIVE: Marshall JCM900 BG DRIVE: Mesa/Boogie Rectifier PV DRIVE: Peavy 5150 VX CRUNCH: VOX AC30 POWER LEAD: original VINTAGE OD: BOSS OD-1 OVERDRIVE: original VINTAGE DIST: Marshall Guv’nor DISTORTION: original FUZZ: original WILD METAL: original COMPRESSOR: original
Response:
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