Fear of 4 strings
Question:
I dig my four string 20 fret Fender and my 24 fret five string Modulus and my 22 fret 5 string G&L. All different. They all pull slightly different things out of me. Dave
Response:
Sounding 1/2 way like a Detroiter there Edward, except in it’s truest form, it’s an unspoken. — -rob Slidell, LA O> /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Play a bass that you like the sound, look and feel of. Don’t choose a > bass based on what other people who don’t have to play it have to say > about it. This is a sure sign that you are lost. There is so much > bizarre posturing in equipment choices. Just freaking play. The sound > is either there or it isn’t. > It’s a simple game, really. > Edward G. > Baltimore, MD
Response:
Four strangs= "more feelin…less mutin" Hawkeye
Response:
Play a bass that you like the sound, look and feel of. Don’t choose a bass based on what other people who don’t have to play it have to say about it. This is a sure sign that you are lost. There is so much bizarre posturing in equipment choices. Just freaking play. The sound is either there or it isn’t. It’s a simple game, really. Edward G. Baltimore, MD
Response:
I use my B all the time, and not just to drone on it. I think it makes all manner of playing easier and more convenient, and it’s not that much heavier to carry the extra string around. So, WTF? I have always found the ‘4 vs. 5′ debate to be a non-issue, driven mostly by GAS. Now, ‘4 strings vs. 3 strings or less’ could present some real musical challenges. Edward G. Baltimore, MD
Response:
> Four strangs= "more feelin…less mutin"
I also find that to be the challenge with 5-string. I don’t remember ever having trouble with muting on a 4-string. I must have learned to do that automagically? With 5-string I seem to run out of fingers. Just a matter of practice, I guess. Spending more time (re)learning guitar these days. — Juhan Leemet Logicognosis, Inc.
Response:
> I think 4 strings are absolutely sufficient for saying anything you want to > say with a bass guitar. Most singers have a voice range of barely two > octaves – Ozzy Osbourne maybe not even an octave and half 
) Still, you > can fully express and address very valued musical points. > Riccardo
That’s not entirely true. I was asked to play Dire Straits-Money for Nothing a while back, I learned the song and ok, four strings would have covered that fine, but then the guy calls me and say the singer wants to sing it in E, boy, was I glad I have a five, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to make it sound like bass. We also played Every Breath you Take three or four tones down, also glad I got a five for that. — Chris
Response:
Here’s the same old crap again! "If you don’t play an instrument just like mine you are stoopid!" Instead of arguing this nonsense, lets talk bass. First off, music is ART. That means there ARE NO RULES! If your "art" requires, yeah, that’s the word, requires you to have a flat panel TV tuned to PBS under the strings then anything less is NOT "absolutely sufficient". That someone else’s art doesn’t require it means nothing. Basically you have 5 (or 6 or 7) strings for just a couple of reasons. 1. Get lower (or higher notes). As folks have said sometimes the music needs it. As others have asserted, sometimes not. 2. Change fingering patterns to an easier more compact form. (no matter what range the notes are in. 3. Change the "look" of your bass to a more modern and hi-tech thing. (even if you never use the extra strings) All of the above are valid "art" considerations. If those things don’t fit your art but a classic primitive sound and look are your thing, then, yeah, sure, you don’t "need" anything but a Vintage Fender 4. As for number of frets. Yeah, I used to be a 24 fret cat. My idea was "better to have it and not use it than to need it and not have it. But I’ve had to revise that. 24 frets is great when you are soloing like mad way up on the neck (as is a 6 string), But sad to say a 24 fret neck simply doesn’t have a really nice classic slap sound. I don’t know, seems to have something to do with the relationship of the last fret position to the harmoics of the strings. So in THAT case the number of frets does matter. But to say that this or that is simply "not needed" is equivalent to saying that "my vision of art is all there is!" Needless to say, such eqo is usually reserved for guitarists (like Boom) rather than bass players. Benj
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Four things: >1) "need" is a strong word: something that is not absolutely essential >may nevertheless be very useful and desirable for legitimate musical >reasons; > Agreed. >2) "lower notes" is not the only reason for having a fifth string. I >quite commonly play E through to G on the B-string for hand position >reasons – I don’t *have to*, but it’s useful and comfortable; > Fair enough, but I can’t say I dig the sound of the B string fretted > any higher than E. Having said that, nobody else in the world gives a > rat’s ass what string you play it on so never mind 
Me neither, the highest I will go is G on the B string, and even so while in the middle of some heavy grooving, as stated elsewhere. Otherwise I’ll stick to E as the highest I will go. When for some reason I have/want to use notes above that on the B string, I try to pluck it a little near to the bridge then the other strings, it seems to balance it out a little. — Chris
Response:
I just bought a Stanley Clarke Alembic Brown Bass. It (sadly) came with only four strings. No wonder this guy is so lousy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I made the switch from 4 to 5 strings as my major gigging instrument > after some 30 years of playing only 4 strings. What ever you can get > from a 4 string you should also be able to get from a 5 – the reverse > is not true. Covering Bill Dogget’s "Hold It" where you play the bass > line on the low two strings and a doad harmony on the top two strings > won’t work on a 4 string unless you have handswith an 18" inch stretch. > The cross neck fingering alone make a 5 useful. Add to that the fact > that when someone calls something from Eb on down you don’t have to be a > treble factory. > This is not about a zillion notes/sec – it’s about the tonal palate > available – groove doesn’t leave you just because of the extra string. > That said – get what moves you – you will play it with more soul if you > connect with the instrument. > -Mark > I want to give myself a new bass somewhere down the road, but I really > not sure whether I should get a 4 or a 5, I have my main good 5 string > and a fretless 4.
Response:
Long ago, I wanted a 5 (Actually, before they were commonly available) to get those extra-low notes. As time went on, the greatest advantage for me came to be the ability to play more stuff across the neck. These days, even though there’s songs where the B string functions only as a thumbrest, I’d feel as limited going back to a 4 as a 4-string player would feel if forced to play with a 3-string bass with no low E. Once you get used to it, 5-string quickly comes to feel like the way a bass should be……now, 6 strings and beyond, I’ve really got no use for. +oM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I made the switch from 4 to 5 strings as my major gigging instrument > after some 30 years of playing only 4 strings. What ever you can get > from a 4 string you should also be able to get from a 5 – the reverse > is not true. Covering Bill Dogget’s "Hold It" where you play the bass > line on the low two strings and a doad harmony on the top two strings > won’t work on a 4 string unless you have handswith an 18" inch stretch. > The cross neck fingering alone make a 5 useful. Add to that the fact > that when someone calls something from Eb on down you don’t have to be a > treble factory. > This is not about a zillion notes/sec – it’s about the tonal palate > available – groove doesn’t leave you just because of the extra string. > That said – get what moves you – you will play it with more soul if you > connect with the instrument. > -Mark > I want to give myself a new bass somewhere down the road, but I really > not sure whether I should get a 4 or a 5, I have my main good 5 string > and a fretless 4. > — > A jazz bassist wins millions on the lottery. A journalist asks him what > his plans are now that he is rich. He says, "Oh, I guess I’ll just keep > working till the money’s all gone".
Response:
<snipped> >Since you normally play a 4-string, Boom, then it comes as no surprise >that you rarely have a real need for the extra string: you surely >tailor what you play to the instrument upon which you intend to play >it, do you not? > Not exactly. If I need the low notes I’ll pick up a 5-string, but I > don’t change what I do on other songs if I can’t change out basses. > So if I’m doing a song like My Girl, I won’t stick in low C’s and
D’s. <shudders> The first thing I ever learnt about playing a fiver was to be sparing with those lows: they’re fantastic if and only if they’re appropriate. But on top of that, if I’m doing a cover, I like to play the original bassline on the assumption that it is probably lodged in the subconcious memory of much of the audience, and that they will therefore respond better to it than to any variation that I might come up with. Your comment about the tone of high notes on the B-string has prompted a question, but I reckon it deserves a thread of its own, so I shall ask it there. Cheers. — Mike.
Response:
> If you already have a 5, I would get a 4. 99 times out of 100, if you > use the lower notes at all (unless you play in one of those bands that > tune way down), it will be to whack yourself off rather than legit > musical concerns. I have a 5 and I use it maybe once a year. > Everything else I do is 4-string, and like Jeffb, a 20-fret 4-string > is good enough for 99% of what I do, though I must admit that I like > having a 24-fret 4 with a whammy bar for soloing > Guys on here sure seem to like 5 strings, but I’d be willing to bet > that if you held a gun to their heads, they would admit that they very > rarely have a need for the lower notes.
au contraire. I played a 4 string for about a year til i actually tried a 5 string. now that expensive 4 string american fender p-bass deluxe just sits in its case. i used it for part of one gig about a year ago when i broke a string on the 5. i hated it. our singer has an incredibly great voice, but likes to move the ‘key’ around alot. we will practice a new song, and go through it once in the original key and then decide that he can do it better if it was a step or two down from the original, and as MarcMars said, i hate to become a treble factory. the 5 string lets me play the original bassline without going up an octave. out of a 35 song night, i use my low B in some capacity on maybe 20-25 of the songs. there are probably 10-15 of the songs that would just be "wrong" without the 5 string. i cant speak for everyone here, but i use the hell out of my 5 string. i NEED that other string. anymore, a 4 string guitar is about as useful to me as a car with 3 wheels. anybody have a good 5 string they would trade for a good fender 4? paul arizona "give me 5 or give me death. okay, maybe a 4 isn’t QUITE that bad"
Response:
>Four things: >1) "need" is a strong word: something that is not absolutely essential >may nevertheless be very useful and desirable for legitimate musical >reasons;
Agreed. >2) "lower notes" is not the only reason for having a fifth string. I >quite commonly play E through to G on the B-string for hand position >reasons – I don’t *have to*, but it’s useful and comfortable;
Fair enough, but I can’t say I dig the sound of the B string fretted any higher than E. Having said that, nobody else in the world gives a rat’s ass what string you play it on so never mind >Since you normally play a 4-string, Boom, then it comes as no surprise >that you rarely have a real need for the extra string: you surely >tailor what you play to the instrument upon which you intend to play >it, do you not?
Not exactly. If I need the low notes I’ll pick up a 5-string, but I don’t change what I do on other songs if I can’t change out basses. So if I’m doing a song like My Girl, I won’t stick in low C’s and D’s. >But I agree that Chris need not fear 4-strings – for >precisely that reason.
Plus it looks cooler
Response:
> I have nothing to say musically I can’t say on a 20 fret 4 string
I agree with you. When I got my new bass guitars, both are 4 string and 20 frets, people were going like "oh, but why you got a bass with 20 frets? Why not a 5 string?". The same was with guitars. All my guitars are 22 frets and "oh no, I wouldn’t buy a guitar that doesn’t sport 24 frets. I want a 7 string one too". I think 4 strings are absolutely sufficient for saying anything you want to say with a bass guitar. Most singers have a voice range of barely two octaves – Ozzy Osbourne maybe not even an octave and half ) Still, you can fully express and address very valued musical points. Riccardo
Response:
If you already have a 5, I would get a 4. 99 times out of 100, if you use the lower notes at all (unless you play in one of those bands that tune way down), it will be to whack yourself off rather than legit musical concerns. I have a 5 and I use it maybe once a year. Everything else I do is 4-string, and like Jeffb, a 20-fret 4-string is good enough for 99% of what I do, though I must admit that I like having a 24-fret 4 with a whammy bar for soloing Guys on here sure seem to like 5 strings, but I’d be willing to bet that if you held a gun to their heads, they would admit that they very rarely have a need for the lower notes.
Response:
> If you already have a 5, I would get a 4. 99 times out of 100, if you > use the lower notes at all (unless you play in one of those bands that > tune way down), it will be to whack yourself off rather than legit > musical concerns. I have a 5 and I use it maybe once a year. > Everything else I do is 4-string, and like Jeffb, a 20-fret 4-string > is good enough for 99% of what I do, though I must admit that I like > having a 24-fret 4 with a whammy bar for soloing > Guys on here sure seem to like 5 strings, but I’d be willing to bet > that if you held a gun to their heads, they would admit that they very > rarely have a need for the lower notes.
Four things: 1) "need" is a strong word: something that is not absolutely essential may nevertheless be very useful and desirable for legitimate musical reasons; 2) "lower notes" is not the only reason for having a fifth string. I quite commonly play E through to G on the B-string for hand position reasons – I don’t *have to*, but it’s useful and comfortable; 3) I play basslines that do genuinely need lower notes (would sound silly without them) rather more often than "very rarely" – perhaps one song in ten that I play has such a bona fide requirement; *however*… 4) if you play a 4-string then you will compose basslines that don’t require a fifth string, and it’s usually possible to recompose previous 5-string lines in such a way that they no longer sound silly on a 4-string, not by changing key, but by changing the "context" to stop the ear from expecting low notes (or by removing the need for 15th-interval double-stops! ). Since you normally play a 4-string, Boom, then it comes as no surprise that you rarely have a real need for the extra string: you surely tailor what you play to the instrument upon which you intend to play it, do you not? But I agree that Chris need not fear 4-strings – for precisely that reason. — Mike.
Response:
>That said – get what moves you – you will play it with more soul if you >connect with the instrument.
I say get the 5. I have nothing to say musically I can’t say on a 20 fret 4 string but I wouldn’t that know for sure if how useless it is to me hadn’t seriously tried the 5. jeffb "Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves" -Dorothy Parker
Response:
I switched to a 5 about 2 years ago. I don’t have much interest in 4s anymore. I play mostly rock covers and a lot of them use dropped d tunings. I love the fact that I don’t have to de-tune for any song. It also makes a lot things much easier to play and as said below – some things I just would not be able to play on a 4. Middle C
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I made the switch from 4 to 5 strings as my major gigging instrument > after some 30 years of playing only 4 strings. What ever you can get > from a 4 string you should also be able to get from a 5 – the reverse > is not true. Covering Bill Dogget’s "Hold It" where you play the bass > line on the low two strings and a doad harmony on the top two strings > won’t work on a 4 string unless you have handswith an 18" inch stretch. > The cross neck fingering alone make a 5 useful. Add to that the fact > that when someone calls something from Eb on down you don’t have to be a > treble factory. > This is not about a zillion notes/sec – it’s about the tonal palate > available – groove doesn’t leave you just because of the extra string. > That said – get what moves you – you will play it with more soul if you > connect with the instrument. > -Mark > I want to give myself a new bass somewhere down the road, but I really > not sure whether I should get a 4 or a 5, I have my main good 5 string > and a fretless 4. > — > A jazz bassist wins millions on the lottery. A journalist asks him what > his plans are now that he is rich. He says, "Oh, I guess I’ll just keep > working till the money’s all gone".
Response:
> but I wouldn’t that know for sure
jeez, second dyslexic post in a row. i gotta sleep more… jeffb "Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves" -Dorothy Parker
Response:
I made the switch from 4 to 5 strings as my major gigging instrument after some 30 years of playing only 4 strings. What ever you can get from a 4 string you should also be able to get from a 5 – the reverse is not true. Covering Bill Dogget’s "Hold It" where you play the bass line on the low two strings and a doad harmony on the top two strings won’t work on a 4 string unless you have handswith an 18" inch stretch. The cross neck fingering alone make a 5 useful. Add to that the fact that when someone calls something from Eb on down you don’t have to be a treble factory. This is not about a zillion notes/sec – it’s about the tonal palate available – groove doesn’t leave you just because of the extra string. That said – get what moves you – you will play it with more soul if you connect with the instrument. -Mark > I want to give myself a new bass somewhere down the road, but I really > not sure whether I should get a 4 or a 5, I have my main good 5 string > and a fretless 4.
– A jazz bassist wins millions on the lottery. A journalist asks him what his plans are now that he is rich. He says, "Oh, I guess I’ll just keep working till the money’s all gone".
Response:
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